3.1 build 9733

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Re: 3.1 build 9733

Postby knaughty » Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:35 am

Majiben wrote:2/2 imp judgement increases your mitigation in AoE.


But we already have the best AoE mitigation, and AoE tanking damage is tuned against DKs/Bears tanking it and they have the worst AoE mitigation, because everyone has to be able to tank everything.

Thus: AoE tanking mitigation cannot be challenging for a paladin tank (coz it would kill bears and DKS). Amply demonstrated by people who tanked MH in blues.

All that said: 2/2 Imp Judge is useful for trash, and there has definitely been challenging trash / adds. I nearly picked it up for Sarth3d [10]. I certainly wasn't tempted to collect it for Patchwerk - we already block every hit, why bother? LoO uptime?!
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Re: 3.1 build 9733

Postby Dantriges » Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:36 am

I´ve heard some time ago that my sacre shield would interfere with the holydin´s one. Is tht correct or doens´t matter how many shields I´ve got on me?
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Re: 3.1 build 9733

Postby Jasari » Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:01 am

Dantriges wrote:I´ve heard some time ago that my sacre shield would interfere with the holydin´s one. Is tht correct or doens´t matter how many shields I´ve got on me?


Only one can proc at a time. I'm not sure if the better shield (holy paladin's) will always proc or not. With 3.1 when shield can only be on one person at a time, it might be worth coordinating who puts their shield on who.
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Re: 3.1 build 9733

Postby Banamor » Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:18 am

I just took my first look at the 9733 Build Talent Tree and here is what I was thinking about:

Patch 3.1, Build 9733

Any constructive criticism?
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Re: 3.1 build 9733

Postby rocket » Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:08 am

the difference than what is generally thrown around as the 53/18 vs your 56/15 is really the choice of crusade vs. HoJ (and you had an extra point and put it in SA)...all in the perspective of a MT/OT through KJ in BC, and of course everyhing in Wrath to date.

Benefit for Crusade (imo) - increase is dps by a minimum of 3% (some mobs are a 3% increase, some are 6%) -> translates into more threat, and the empirical calculation shows that each point in crusade has a ~18ish dps per talent point. Also threat capping dpsers could enjoy having a little more headroom

Negative of Crusade - There isnt any theat issues, we make enough as it is. our dps increase is miniscule, so talent points are better off spent somewhere else.

Benefit for Imp HoJ with JotJ - 3 sec spell interrupt with a 20 sec CD (40 sec off 1 min base). May stun non-bosses. This is beneficial if you see your self needing to interrupt bosses that cast, and no one is around to CS, kick, etc.

Negative of Imp HoJ - if you dont recall the need to spell interrupt, then why spend 2 points into this

1 more point in SA? increase of mana by a factor of 2 from heals from 1 point. if you see you are mana starved regularly, then it is a good idea. however there is a connected talent that offset this - Divine Plea with 100% uptime. I wore the T6 set to go from 10% SA to 11% SA since mana was more of an issue back then, but you should optimize this stuff based on your own personal experiences.
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Re: 3.1 build 9733

Postby FlukemDukem » Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:39 pm

Banamor wrote:I just took my first look at the 9733 Build Talent Tree and here is what I was thinking about:

Patch 3.1, Build 9733

Any constructive criticism?

probably what ill be going with. Minus Imp Hammer of Justice, i really see no point in that for tanking as the poster above me points out im gonna put the points in Crusade most likely. Nice avatar pic lol.

Mavrix wrote:
Unless you throw in a line that gives it to target of target (in other words, you're targetting the boss while another tank is tanking it), this macro doesn't seem to add any utility if you have auto-selfcast turned on. I just can't think of a scenario where you'd have auto-selfcast off, tbh.

All that macro does for me is when im MTing with the boss targeted it casts SS on me, otherwise if im targeting a friendly player it will cast on them like it was regular SS button.
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Re: 3.1 build 9733

Postby knaughty » Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:58 pm

I'd take 2/2 Imp Judge ahead of 1/5 Benediction.
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Re: 3.1 build 9733

Postby Venoseth » Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:54 am

Knaughty wrote:I'd take 2/2 Imp Judge ahead of 1/5 Benediction.


In the decision between 1s faster judgements in very few situations where it'd help (at the cost of your rotation) and a 2% off of instant cast spell mana cost...you're not going to make or break anything. Take whatever you like, no one will ever notice. lol
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Re: 3.1 build 9733

Postby knaughty » Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:07 am

Oh yes, Amazingly Minor Quibble is Amazingly Minor.

Feel free to assume that the fact I only found 1/5 Bene to complain about means "Spec looks good".
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Re: 3.1 build 9733

Postby Panzerdin » Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:03 am

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Re: 3.1 build 9733

Postby Torquemada » Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:25 am

Still toying around, but looking at http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?paladin=000000000000000000000000000500503502311231133331232150230030200300000000000000&glyph=172407040501&version=9733. I know DG/DS will be situationally useful but I'm usually busy tanking something so meh. The point in Reckoning is a very, very minor threat increase, but I find it more useful than putting a point in Divinity to get into deep Prot.

I'm still considering the options for my points in Ret. I might go 5/5 Conviction and 3/3 Crusade, or I might keep PoJ. I've always found PoJ useful especially on trash, and while bosses are the focus you do have to clear trash to get there, and I recall reading at least once that Ulduar trash won't be as trivial/AOE-able as Naxx.

I'm also flexible to keeping 1/2 in SA or going 2/2 if I find that mana returns are too low. If they end up culling 100% Divine Plea up time for some reason I'll probably either take the point from Conviction if I don't keep PoJ, or from Crusade if I'm rocking with PoJ.
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Re: 3.1 build 9733

Postby Culwich » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:13 am

Based in what i usually see in my Raids, my Build is going to be little different from the ones i´m seeing around.

Mine will be 0/56/15 - http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?paladin ... rsion=9733

Well, let me explain why i will chose this one:

In my Raids, there is always a Ret Paladin, that´s why i did not put any points in HoC. It´´s a waste.

Spend 3 points on DS and DG is also a waste, since 1 Holy Paladin from my guild will get this new talent and will benefit more from the Sacred Shield, because of his spell power.

I´m not going beyond Conviction, since my role is not do DPS (and go beyond this will just slightly improve DPS) and also Tankadins TPS is already good enough. So, i´m seeing it as non essential.

That´s why i also put 5 points on Divinity. To Receive 10% more heal from my Pally and 5% more heal from the others healers.

I think in my situation, the one i will use is the best. But i agree that it may change depending of the Raid Setup.
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Re: 3.1 build 9733

Postby Fridmarr » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:27 am

One correction, Divinity gives you 5% more healing from everyone. It's only 10% if you heal yourself.
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Re: 3.1 build 9733

Postby Awyndel » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:32 am

Think I'm gonna be using a survival spec as well.

Except sotp could beat conviction, specially with t8 bonus ( at least theck seemed to reckon so ) .
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Re: 3.1 build 9733

Postby Jasari » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:36 am

I feel like it's worth mentioning that an increase in raid DPS is an increase in raid DPS regardless of who it's coming from. Just because your "primary" roll is tanking, doesn't mean that adding addition DPS is worthless.

You're basically sacrificing 1-2% damage dealt in favor of +1% healing received when taking Divinity over Crusade. If it increased raid-wide healing received by 1% I'd consider it a decent trade off, but in this case I will definitely be speccing for Crusade.
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