How many tanks for Ulduar?

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How many tanks for Ulduar?

Postby Lieris » Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:02 pm

In Naxx 25 more than 3 tanks is not needed and at least one of those should have the ability to DPS (imagine Naxx is hard and you need to optimise the raid). I appreciate Ulduar is still not finished but what would your tank setup be for a clear from start to finish? Is a competitive DPS set going mandatory for all but the one or two guild MTs?

In my guild there are 3 other prots and 2 ferals, based on current content that's too many tanks and if Ulduar is a similar story to Naxx I will turn down a promotion from social member to raider and stick to 10 mans (which I probably enjoy more anyway truth told).

Any advice or anecdotes are appreciated. :)
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Re: How many tanks for Ulduar?

Postby Zoltar » Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:13 pm

Depends on your guild and expectations of the members.

Our guild considers themselves to be a casual raiding guild. We are not hardcore yet still clear all content, including Sarth 2D (havent got 3D yet) in 2 raiding nights (3hrs each). We have 6 tanks that regularly sign for raids and we simply rotate them about so everyone gets a run. This works pretty well for us. At the moment one is busy with study and another is having relationship issues he is focused on so our pool is down to 4 for the next few weeks. Because we have a larger pool raids still continue and tanks don't feel they have to put their RL on hold so a raid can run. I'll probably take a week off next week to prevent me getting bored with the content but raids will still run because of the pool.

If your guild is a little more hardcore and you have fixed teams and attendance requirements then it's a whole different scenario.
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Re: How many tanks for Ulduar?

Postby Vanifae » Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:38 pm

Balanced raid group with 3 tanks is what I am taking.
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Re: How many tanks for Ulduar?

Postby Serelynn » Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:07 am

Based on the fights I've seen so far it looks like you'll need 2 solid tanks and a possible 3rd add-tank that wouldn't be needed on some fights.
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Re: How many tanks for Ulduar?

Postby guillex » Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:21 am

It shouldn't really matter, with the advent of dual-specs in 3.1 ... You should have more than enough tanks with DPS sets that switches can be made on the fly.

Though, that's just me, honestly. Guild needs change. 3 seems to be the standard number these days, but who knows when a fury/kitty/ret/dk might need to step up to the tanking plate to help out.
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Re: How many tanks for Ulduar?

Postby Aldonza » Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:38 am

We have a core of three tanks in my guild (warrior, paladin, and druid) that are known specced tanks that are also marked as raiders. The warrior and myself are typically the go to tanks for raids, but for some fights, we have the druid take over (anything were a HP sponge is handy). We've got one tank-specced DK with iffy attendence and TPS that is also a raider, but I'm not sure how well he'll overall hang out in the long term.

If needed though, we have one DPS DK (with spotty attendence again) who can tank rather well if needed, and our GL/RL is a holy paladin that is planning on taking Prot as his dual spec and will happily assume that role if needed - so long as healing is covered.
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Re: How many tanks for Ulduar?

Postby Lieris » Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:59 am

Thanks for the replies so far, that pretty much confirms my fears. I am not fond of the way 25 man raids require just as many full-time tanks as the 10 mans. I don't mind a bit of competition for places but when the two MTs are officers I think I am on a hiding to nothing on this one. Nowt wrong with just doing 10 mans anyway. :)
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Re: How many tanks for Ulduar?

Postby Kelaan » Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:20 pm

We tend to have 3-5 tanks available at any give time. One went full-time cat DPS. The rest of us will likely throw on ret gear (and dual spec to dps) on fights we don't need to tank. That said, we will also still (I expect) be rotating tanking duties.
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Re: How many tanks for Ulduar?

Postby Worldie » Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:57 pm

Basically 3 tanks is the idea.

The how you handle it (3 main tanks, 1 main tanks with 2 tanks with dps second spec) will depend on your guild.

I think we're going with 3 tanks , all with DPS offspec.
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Re: How many tanks for Ulduar?

Postby Levantine » Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:57 pm

I think we're going with 3 tanks in OPB. Two with very strong DPS sets, the third with a decent healing set.
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Re: How many tanks for Ulduar?

Postby Yadard » Mon Mar 30, 2009 3:14 pm

Am I the only person who thinks stripping tanks of their slots in raids is just flat out wrong? These days we're running 2 tanks, 6 healers and 17 DPS, and DPSing in rotation is boreing the hell out of me.

They added a new tanking class in tBC. Minimum they should be optimising raids for 4 tanks again (Tier 5 content was stacked with great fights that needed 4 tanks) and really they should bew looking at 5.
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Re: How many tanks for Ulduar?

Postby KysenMurrin » Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:15 pm

They're providing the same encounters for 10 and 25 man, and it's just easier to balance both versions for the same number of tanks (for the most part).
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Re: How many tanks for Ulduar?

Postby Kelaan » Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:03 pm

Yadard wrote:Am I the only person who thinks stripping tanks of their slots in raids is just flat out wrong? These days we're running 2 tanks, 6 healers and 17 DPS, and DPSing in rotation is boreing the hell out of me.


Our raid will have 3-4 people who will Want To Tank -- as we currently do. We tend to rotate tanking assignments, since there's not often more than two things that need tanking. (Boss, crowd of adds, or boss + miniboss, etc etc.) Some fights are easier with 3+ tanks (Gothik, Noth, Razuvius, for example), and I imagine that will hold in Ulduar as well. That said, there are still many fights when we who are NOT currently tanking are stuck in "do crappy DPS" mode. I expect I will be quite happy to swap spec to a real DPS spec, so that I will be less gimpy to the raid. Even in T7-ish offset ret gear, I'll likely do more DPS than as prot spec in any gear, if I'm not tanking. Alternatively, I can go holy and let someone who is normally a healer do DPS for those fights. Consider that, if you have any healers who are interested in doing DPS some of the time. (We're extra lucky as half the tanks don't have that choice.)

Either way, I expect that notbeing able to tank half the fights won't really be so bad. I agree, it'd be neat if you could scale up from 2/10 -> 4/25 (or 5/25) tanks... but that puts a limiter on fight design. Sometimes, you just want some big dude like Gruul, Loatheb, or Heigan, and don't really need hordes of other things to tank. What are the other ways to make more tanks useful? Tanking debuffs (threat or survival), H{ate|urt}ful strikes, serious aggro games (e.g., require taunt+threat juggling) to stay ahead of DPS, Burning Adrenaline (forced tank death), phased portals with different Bad Things to tank, and extra adds. Archavon has a similar tank removal scheme, except that it is (forgivingly) temporary. Am I missing anything?

So, yes, to a certain extent, there are ways to make More Tanks useful to a raid ... but most of them are Not New. Short of needing to taunt-juggle, there aren't many fights that don't involve one of these mechanics. Every boss fight has a "gimmick" of sorts, but maybe it's OK if Blizzard doesn't explicitly try to make every major boss fight require a lot of tanks. If there are enough bosses that we all get to tank something cool, I think I'm mostly OK with that. I especially like when we DO have something useful to do (like whelps or drakes on Sartharion), but am not opposed to doign Something Else for a fight or three in a week.
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Re: How many tanks for Ulduar?

Postby PsiVen » Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:07 pm

Our tanking roster is deep enough for my money (our full schedule is 5 days/week):

2 Wars (1 main fury)
2 Pals (1 main ret)
2 Druids (1 main resto/dps, 1 main dps)
2 Deathknights (1 main dps, tanks in that role)

So we really only have 3-4 primary tanks, but plenty of hybrids skilled enough to take a slot should they be needed.

To answer your question directly, yes, a competitive DPS set will probably be mandatory. I would be wary of trying to "fit in" to a tanking roster that is already happy, unless you would prefer to be ret most of the time.
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Re: How many tanks for Ulduar?

Postby amh » Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:52 am

Tons of tanks + off-specs geared to tank. Running out of tanks is horrible :@

Paladin:
1 main
1 alt
2 holy with tank-gear
(probably) 1 ret with tank-gear

Warrior:
2 mains
1 fury
1 alt

Druids:
1 bear
1 cat, ex-bear
1 tree with tank-gear

DKs:
1 main
(we really need to gear up an off-spec/alt, just in case)

Dual-specs can't come soon enough :) Gonna be a puzzle to rotate tanks around if the encounters don't require more than three for progression.
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