The Greatest Sin - Reckoning with SoR

[Doxa]

Looking through the 3.1 patch notes, glyphs and T8 Set bonuses I'm thinking that this is looking pretty damn nice for 25-man raiding.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?paladin=05000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000&glyph=231407000000&version=9704

Yes, I know it includes reckoning. However, it appears to me that Blizz is encouraging the use of SoR again.

This set up includes the Glyph of SoR for = +10% more damage
Assuming the 2 set T8 Bonus = +10% Seal damage
Seals of the Pure = +15% SoR damage

That's 35% more Seal damage w/ Reckoning while using SoR. With a fast 1-hander that could be pretty nice.

[Kynes]

That build you posted has 5/5 SotP and not a single talent point spent past that. Might wanna repost it

Other than that, until I see someone run the numbers in a full analysis, I'll stick with 3/3 crusade come 3.1.

[majiben]

It is not viable. With the glyph at 30% it was a close race. With it reduced back to 10% there is no contest. SoV wins.

[Doxa]

That build you posted has 5/5 SotP and not a single talent point spent past that. Might wanna repost it

Other than that, until I see someone run the numbers in a full analysis, I'll stick with 3/3 crusade come 3.1.

Another try:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?paladin=05000000000000000000000000450050350315232133331232150100000000000000000000000&glyph=231407000000&version=9704

Crusade is nice indeed but most likely a waste in a 25-man raid with a ret paladin.

It is not viable. With the glyph at 30%...

I have no idea what you're referring to. 30% from where?

EDIT:

It is not viable. With the glyph at 30% it was a close race. With it reduced back to 10% there is no contest. SoV wins.

Also, you forgot to read my sig! Remember, I'm a trash tank for 25-mans. I'll take the snap aggro from SoR +35%, I think.

[Kynes]

Crusade is nice indeed but most likely a waste in a 25-man raid with a ret paladin.

You're thinking Heart of the Crusader. I'm talking Crusade. 3% flat damage increase. 6% vs Humanoids, Elementals, Undead and Demons.

EDIT: Here is the build I plan on using or something extremely similar.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?paladin ... rsion=9704

[guillex]

The SoR Glyph was changed from 30% damage to 10%.

[Doxa]

Crusade is nice indeed but most likely a waste in a 25-man raid with a ret paladin.

You're thinking Heart of the Crusader. I'm talking Crusade. 3% flat damage increase. 6% vs Humanoids, Elementals, Undead and Demons.

Doh!

[theckhd]

I'm not sure why you call it "the Greatest Sin" - If a particular configuration is better for DPS or threat, then it's better for DPS/threat. There's nothing sinful about optimizing your setup.

That being said, Majiben is right - the calculation's been done. With the 30% SoR glyph, SoR with Broken Promise and 5/5 Reckoning only barely beats out SoV with Last Laugh in overall DPS. With the glyph back down to 10%, it won't stand a chance unless they itemize some 3.0+ speed tanking weapons.

Also, with the new placement of Spiritual attunement, a Paladin speccing for crusade is likely to get a maximum of 4/5 points in Reckoning, and 2/5 is more likely. This makes SoR even worse.

If the glyph stays at 10%, SoV will still be the tanking seal, and Reckoning will still be relatively weak. Maybe 2/5 points if you're really trying to max your threat out, but those points are likely better spent for utility in Imp HoJ or Divinity or something else.

[blkthunder]

What about seal twisting with a 5 stack of sov, with sor for 3 hits?

[Salamandra]

Seal twisting to be good would require the threat gain from the SoR hits to be more than what you'd have otherwise done with those 2 GCDs, which wouldn't even close to be the case.

That is, unless you're replacing two holy shields on Kel'thuzad or something, then you'd probably see an increase in threat. Probably a bit too much of an intensive micro-managing clusterfuck to bother doing considering the gain would be tiny.

[Jasari]

What about seal twisting with a 5 stack of sov, with sor for 3 hits?

Seal Twisting is no longer a DPS increase because we actually have stuff to do every single GCD, unlike during BC when we'd mash Consecrate and Holy Shield, once every 8 seconds and then reseal after an off-the-GCD Judgement.

[theckhd]

The seal-twisting calculation has already been done: Part 1 here, and part 2 here.

Basically, there's rarely any case where seal-twisting is better than just substituting Exorcism in for every other Holy Shield, and even in that rare case it's such a minor increase that it's probably not worth the effort.