The Basic Talent Spec at 3.1?

[Vinvi]

http://ptr.wowhead.com/?talent=sZE0tAfofdIIRGoxf00b

The only parts I'm iffy with are DS, impHoJ, and the second point in impJudge.

Would there be a better place for those, or is it just a case of having to take crappy talents because blizz sucks at making talent trees?

[Panzerdin]

http://ptr.wowhead.com/?talent=sVZV0tAfofdIIRGots00b is better.

[Neara]

i will go with
http://ptr.wowhead.com/?talent=sZV0tAfofkIIRGogobhbc

[Vinvi]

Panzerdin, yours seems OK, but isn't divinity trump SotP? Divinity seems like it would be pretty helpful.

[Korbah]

http://ptr.wowhead.com/?talent=sVZV0tAfofdIIRGots00b is better.

Why wouldn't you want to take 5% extra healing on yourself?

[majiben]

Because it's a really poor talent and if you read the discussion thread on it it becomes appearent.

[Panzerdin]

Free hint guys: If I tell you something, I'm generally not lying. Divinity is a waste of 5 talent points.

[steadypal]

Free hint guys: If I tell you something, I'm generally not lying. Divinity is a waste of 5 talent points.

5/5 conviction and 2/3 crusade was deemed better than 5/5 sotp? or if u go 1/2 SA 3/3 crusade..


why are you not going to get those talents?

[Palizangetsu]

I'm going with http://ptr.wowhead.com/?talent=sZV0tAfofkIIRGovo0hbc for raiding purposes if i start doing heroics and 5mans more often then i would go with http://ptr.wowhead.com/?talent=sZV0tAfofkIIRGots0hbc and if 1 point in SA isnt enough which i would doubt to be true i would pull out a point from crusade and and max out SA.

[Korbah]

"Because I say so" is a really poor explanation. I was just wondering why you personally wouldn't take that talents, since you simply stated your spec is better without describing why. I just wouldn't state one spec is "better" without giving a reason or purpose for it, just for the fact if you give a reason, people(like me) actually learn.
Personally, I wouldn't take 5 out of 5 SotP instead of divinity, as even if seals/judgements consisted of 20% of your damage(which is generally the max from seals/judgements that I've seen from looking at several WWS reports from prot paladins), you would be increasing your total damage by 3%.. while the extra 100 or so dps you could be getting from this talent on a good day is not bad, I would rather take 5% extra healing for progression, and yes, I do realize that would increase overhealing as well. I guess I should have asked why you took SotP instead of Divinity.
Yeah, for threat sensitive fights you would want more damage, but for progression fights?

I have read the divinity thread, and nothing there convinces me that divinity isn't worth taking compared to the alternatives that you would be spending your talent points on.

[Panzerdin]

"Because I say so" is a really poor explanation. I was just wondering why you personally wouldn't take that talents, since you simply stated your spec is better without describing why. I just wouldn't state one spec is "better" without giving a reason or purpose for it, just for the fact if you give a reason, people(like me) actually learn.
Personally, I wouldn't take 5 out of 5 SotP instead of divinity, as even if seals/judgements consisted of 20% of your damage(which is generally the max from seals/judgements that I've seen from looking at several WWS reports from prot paladins), you would be increasing your total damage by 3%.. while the extra 100 or so dps you could be getting from this talent on a good day is not bad, I would rather take 5% extra healing for progression, and yes, I do realize that would increase overhealing as well. I guess I should have asked why you took SotP instead of Divinity.
Yeah, for threat sensitive fights you would want more damage, but for progression fights?

I have read the divinity thread, and nothing there convinces me that divinity isn't worth taking compared to the alternatives that you would be spending your talent points on.

What kills you in progression fights is not a failure to output sufficient healing, but a failure to heal you at all. Clearly, if you aren't being healed, Divinity isn't doing you very much good, is it?

Oh, and incidentally, I can explain myself to you any way I like, because I have no interest in convincing you that I'm right.

[Deet]

I don't view divinity as a worthy investment simply because I don't see healer throughput as an issue currently. We can outline the scenario where the 10k holy light hitting you for 10.5k is the difference between life and death, but when you've gotten to that point, I'm pretty sure you have bigger issues to deal with. I can understand you putting a few points in just to scale the tree if you really hate divine sacrifice and guardian or whatever else blocks your way.

[knaughty]

• Divinity is about half as powerful as most other +% talents, and is thus bad value per talent point. It should be 5/5 = +10%

• It is fairly poor for Holy, who would generally prefer the +crit talents from mid-tier Ret.

• Ret has no reason to want it. Then again, they have nowhere else to spend points anyway... Go go OP JoL ?

• Increasing healing received isn't part of the tank's job spec. Avoiding death and holding threat are. Divinity is obviously optional: The other three tanks have no equivalent.

Thus: Divinity is a shit talent.

[Panzerdin]

Also, no boss fight will ever require Divinity, because then every other tank will be screwed.

[Sarkan-ZdC]

Ah.. but is +5% not perfectly for the Blizzard "we don't mind if one tank is slightly better then others in some encounters"?

Sure as hell it will not help us a lot of times. But same goes for other talents. On farm nights AD did not save me once. And it migrated like 0.5% of my damage. That is VERY bad for a 5 point talent.

But the reason why I have AD is, it did save my ass before. Now 5/5 Divinity currently (3.0.9) looks bad. Healers have TONs of Healing, the HP/s is WAY over the DTPS so do we need it right now? Hell no.

But as a 3.1 talent we should look at 3.1 hard mode fights.

Do we need more TPS on those (or on most of those?) Go 0/53/18 or so. But, if Tanks die first and TPS still is no problem.. I'll go 5/5 Divinity immediatly. Probably I will have two tank speccs, one max tps one max survival. And 5/5 divinity is max survival. Maybe bad value point for point, but to say it is useles is also wrong.