3.1 build with SA

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Postby Nalyn » Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:56 am

Where they put SA doesn't both me too much, I still end up with a couple more free points to toss around overall, 2/3 Crusade is still better than what we had previously :)

That said, another small shake up, in our middle prot talents would be nice, I would think moving 1 hand weapon spec, or redoubt, down to T5 with reckoning and BoSanct would be the best choices, give us a slightly better choice in how to get into the T6 talents and beyond.
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Postby Garath.Gorefiend » Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:43 am

Nalyn wrote:Where they put SA doesn't both me too much, I still end up with a couple more free points to toss around overall, 2/3 Crusade is still better than what we had previously :)

That said, another small shake up, in our middle prot talents would be nice, I would think moving 1 hand weapon spec, or redoubt, down to T5 with reckoning and BoSanct would be the best choices, give us a slightly better choice in how to get into the T6 talents and beyond.


One hand spec probably is too good to move...redoubt would be the safest one to reposition
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Postby Mordinm » Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:55 pm

Garath.Gorefiend wrote:One hand spec probably is too good to move...redoubt would be the safest one to reposition


Why? Ret's dps will go though the floor if they put on a one-hander and holy isn't exactly a dps machine as is. Redoubt would seem to have a larger effect on PvP if a holy pally would pick it up vs say a rogue or feral trying to dps them. Either one is pretty safe to move.

Maybe I am the only one but it seem to me have 10 to 15 points to spend outside your main tree is not too shabby at all. Prot seems to be a very slim tree. I also don't see any agro problem at all so I am little confused as to what the problem is that moving this talent is supposed to fix.
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Postby Dorvan » Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:59 pm

Mordinm wrote:Maybe I am the only one but it seem to me have 10 to 15 points to spend outside your main tree is not too shabby at all. Prot seems to be a very slim tree. I also don't see any agro problem at all so I am little confused as to what the problem is that moving this talent is supposed to fix.


Our 2 main branching options call for 18 points in non-prot trees (12/53/6 or 0/53/18). All I really want is to be able to spend just a couple points past my 51 pointers and then get into the other trees a little like Blizz said they wanted us to do. It not a complete game-breaker, but the SA change puts us up to 54 points in Prot, which seriously hurts Imp LoH/AM specs and isn't great for Crusade specs either.
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Postby majiben » Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:59 pm

If it was in T4 then 1HS would be required for ret. Even in T5 the trade is pretty close. A 10% increase in damage for 3 points. DS provides roughly that much DPS. In fact due to fewer CD conflicts their dps may not even drop that much if they lost DS.

The SA change only requires 53 points if we can function on a 5% return.
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Postby Mordinm » Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:03 pm

Majiben wrote:If it was in T4 then 1HS would be required for ret. Even in T5 the trade is pretty close. A 10% increase in damage for 3 points. DS provides roughly that much DPS. In fact due to fewer CD conflicts their dps may not even drop that much if they lost DS.


Have they changed the talent or does 1HS still require you to using a one handed weapon. Until pallies get Titan's Grip not only will you lose a ton of dps just from equiping a one hander but you will lose your 2 handed weapon spec bonus as well. 1HS would not be picked up in any reasonable ret build.
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Postby Dorvan » Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:05 pm

1H spec still requires that you have a 1H'er equipped. I wouldn't be too worried about it being crazy powerful for Ret (in PvE at least, I suppose it could have some uses in PvP maybe).
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Postby theckhd » Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:14 pm

Dorvan wrote:1H spec still requires that you have a 1H'er equipped. I wouldn't be too worried about it being crazy powerful for Ret (in PvE at least, I suppose it could have some uses in PvP maybe).

In fact, that might make 1HWS the better talent to move earlier in the tree. I can't see any way ret would benefit from 1HWS at all, but it might be attractive enough to Holy to pick it up for soloing/leveling/etc.

However, it would have to be awfully early in the tree in that case - T5 is even too high.
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Postby majiben » Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:22 pm

That... is a good point :-P
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Postby Torquemada » Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:15 pm

If MMO-Champion's tree is correct, I'm debating this now. I was leaning towards Crusade before they put SA in the Protection tree, but if there are enough things that Crusade doesn't work on(Mechanicals, Giants?) SotP may work out to be more advantageous.
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Postby theckhd » Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:19 pm

Torquemada wrote:If MMO-Champion's tree is correct, I'm debating this now. I was leaning towards Crusade before they put SA in the Protection tree, but if there are enough things that Crusade doesn't work on(Mechanicals, Giants?) SotP may work out to be more advantageous.

Crusade "works" on everything, it just works extra well on certain mob types.

But even on mechanicals/giants/etc, a point in Crusade is more DPS/TPS than a point in SotP.
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Postby steadypal » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:26 am

when i was lvling as ret at times i put on a shield and boy was it fun


judge/CS/DS/shield slam thats alot of instant WIN lol
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Postby Torquemada » Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:24 am

I keep forgetting things like that without regular computer access. I had 5 mins online looking up my itinerary home and made a point to throw that up quick.

I will probably go 3/5 Convic, 2/3 Crusade and let my OCD suck up the fact that I will have so many partially filled talents due to SA.
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Postby Alrinea » Fri Mar 20, 2009 2:18 am

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?paladin=00000000000000000000000000550051350310232133331232151130020200000000000000000&glyph=000000000000&version=9704

will be my version. 0/57/14 - imho no need to drop more defensive talents in prot for extra threat in ret.
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Postby Gamingdevil » Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:14 am

Alrinea wrote:http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?paladin=00000000000000000000000000550051350310232133331232151130020200000000000000000&glyph=000000000000&version=9704

will be my version. 0/57/14 - imho no need to drop more defensive talents in prot for extra threat in ret.


In that spec we are back to the way we are now: SotP outperforms the points you have to spare to get deep down into the ret tree and therefor PoJ is a big investment for all the filler talents you are taking.
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