[Mage-PVE] Ideas on a Frost Mage raiding build 3.1

Ret, Holy, PVP, etc

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[Mage-PVE] Ideas on a Frost Mage raiding build 3.1

Postby Shoju » Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:47 am

So, If Ret does end up getting smacked in the head in 3.1, I'm leveling my frost mage, plus I love my mage. I'm normally a replenishment slot in raid, so I would be leveling my frost mage to raid as frost with replenishment.


Here is my spec thought for raiding as frost


14/0/57

Some reasoning behind talent choices:

No Frostbite. Since we are just talking about a raid setting here, This is only going to work on trash, and it's a proc. If they downplay the AoE in Ulduar, and focus on more controlled trash, I don't see this as a viable talent.

No Imp. Cone of Cold. This is a close range spell, and will more than likely see 0 use in a raid. No mage should be getting close to mobs to use this ability. If the encounter has gotten to this point, it's not going to be a deal breaker not to have the talent.

Ice Barrier. Absorbs AoE damage. Could make the load on healing the raid a little easier.

No Shattered Barrier. Again, not a factor in a raid setting.

No Deep Freeze. This is not a PVE talent for raiding.

Arcane subtlety and Focus. Both of these talents are taken under the assumption that you will be sheeping targets in Ulduar. This will allow sheeps to go down faster, and just in case they have a dispel mechanic it might be a fall back (plus, I don't think that using arcane missiles as frost is a good idea.

Spell Impact: A very iffy talent. Currently I've taken it because I see that they are talking about trying to give a FB + IL combo in PVE. This would up the damage of the Ice Lance.

Focus Magic. This talent will buff another caster, and in turn buff myself. again, an iffy talent that I could drop.

Major Glyphs:
Based on current info and glyphs available on MMO-Champ:

Molten Armor - More Crit
Water Elemental - More Replenishment
Ice Lance - for the FB - IL combo they want to give.

Minor Glyphs:
Slow Fall - Who knows, it might be useful, and man minors suck for mages
A.I. - The only 'useful' minor
Penguin - Because maybe we need to mark the sheep, and someone else is using pig.

Thoughts? Ideas? Am I crazy for thinking this way?
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Postby KysenMurrin » Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:07 pm

The top raid dps Frost build at the moment goes 18 points into Arcane for Torment the Weak. Currently, Torment the Weak increases damage of Frostbolt, Fireball, Frostfire Bolt, Arcane Missiles, Arcane Blast, and Arcane Barrage by 12% on targets affected not just by movement slows but by Judgements of the Just, Icy Touch, Infected Wounds, or Thunderclap - in raids, it is basically a free 12% damage on bosses.

You have to sacrifice points in Frost, however, to reach it. Imp. Blizzard is generally the first place to go; dropping to 1/3 is enough to keep Fingers of Frost procs on trash. Some people drop Ice Barrier or Brain Freeze for additional points, but personally I prefer Ice Floes - you lose cooldown reduction on Icy Veins, but the other effects have minimal impact on raiding.

This is the build I run with, with those changes above:
19/0/52

There's a spare point floating around in there.

For glyphs, I'll be using the same as those you mentioned. Currently Glyph of Ice Lance is pretty weak, but it's still a relative dps increase to use a Glyphed Ice Lance on Fingers of Frost procs.


Personally, I believe Torment the Weak is too powerful, and Blizz need to do something to change the fact that the top dps builds in Fire and Frost both spec into it. I'd love to see a PTR build go up with a slightly nerfed TtW and a new two- or three-point talent in deep Frost that increases raid dps, but it's probably not going to happen.
Last edited by KysenMurrin on Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Dorvan » Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:10 pm

Yeah, Torment the Weak is absolutely necessary. tbh though, frost is rather weak in PvE right now, if there's any leeway on Replenishment I'd go for one of the other mage specs (Fire, FFB, and Arcane are all relatively close).
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Postby KysenMurrin » Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:18 pm

That is definately true. I went Frostfire as my second spec on the PTR, and it is a lot of fun. The rotation's fairly straightforward, but takes a little more thought than Frost (good thing), and my standard rotation dps as Frostfire matches my blow-all-cooldowns dps as Frost.

I've been Frost from 10-80, and I really wasn't expecting to like Frostfire as much as I am.
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Postby Panzerdin » Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:37 pm

My advice is to spec into a spec that can actually pull decent DPS... Mages aren't really a replenishment class. If you must, then http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage=23000503010000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000533030313233100230152231350&glyph=252817060108&version=9684 is the best going.
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Postby Shoju » Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:53 pm

KysenMurrin wrote:The top raid dps Frost build at the moment goes 18 points into Arcane for Torment the Weak. Currently, Torment the Weak increases damage of Frostbolt, Fireball, Frostfire Bolt, Arcane Missiles, Arcane Blast, and Arcane Barrage by 12% on targets affected not just by movement slows but by Judgements of the Just, Icy Touch, Infected Wounds, or Thunderclap - in raids, it is basically a free 12% damage on bosses.

You have to sacrifice points in Frost, however, to reach it. Imp. Blizzard is generally the first place to go; dropping to 1/3 is enough to keep Fingers of Frost procs on trash. Some people drop Ice Barrier or Brain Freeze for additional points, but personally I prefer Ice Floes - you lose cooldown reduction on Icy Veins, but the other effects have minimal impact on raiding.

This is the build I run with, with those changes above:
19/0/52

There's a spare point floating around in there.

For glyphs, I'll be using the same as those you mentioned. Currently Glyph of Ice Lance is pretty weak, but it's still a relative dps increase to use a Glyphed Ice Lance on Fingers of Frost procs.


Personally, I believe Torment the Weak is too powerful, and Blizz need to do something to change the fact that the top dps builds in Fire and Frost both spec into it. I'd love to see a PTR build go up with a slightly nerfed TtW and a new two- or three-point talent in deep Frost that increases raid dps, but it's probably not going to happen.



Thanks for the tip, I totally forgot about Torment the weak (and I just respecc'd from arcane /shame)

Yeah, Going with 1/3 Imp. Blizzard is a good way to cut points. I forgot to trim that down from my leveling build.

I was torn on taking ice flows, but thought that the cooldown reduction on Icy Veins would be too good to pass up. I would love to cut Brain Freeze, as I personally will only play my mage as frost (I HATE fire, and left my mage as a farmer in TBC so that I didn't have to respec to raid). Frostfire might be cool, but it's just not my style.

Currently, we only have a crew of 4-5 of us that play a replenishment spec, and I don't see any of our warlocks going destro. They are either seriously heavy affliction or the 41/30 build. If I were to drop my Paladin, I would be playing the mage as frost to fill in the replenishment role.

I'm only using the Glyph of Ice Lance because they have said they would like to give us a reason to hit it in PVE. If they don't do it, I will probably change the glyph to something else.

Thanks for the tips, I will get to leveling the silly mage to be ready.
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Postby Shoju » Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:15 pm

double post yes, but Can you give me an armory link to your mage? I would love to take a look at one.
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Postby KysenMurrin » Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:51 pm

Not sure how helpful mine will be, to be honest I haven't had much first-hand PvE experience on my mage so far. I was still levelling him when WotLK hit, and since then I've always taken my tank into instances (partly because I prefer tanking, partly because my guild's other main tank went on a four-month hiatus). I just have a habit of doing a lot of reading up on the specs I'm playing, I like to try and get to know them inside out. (Okay, and I'm also a chronic procrastinator or I'd've started working on him by now.)

Anyway, here's the Armory. His gear's not great, mostly ilevel 187-200 blues. No doubt there are a few others on here who raid and could post a much better armory for you to see.
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Postby Panzerdin » Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:04 pm

Lose points from imp blizzard and frost warding to get TTW, Ice Floes is more DPS than they are.
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Postby Nich » Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:51 pm

Dare I suggest something akin to 19/0/52?

I think I saw a MA change whereby it'll increase crit based on spirit (which IMO tips student of the mind > magic absorption).
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Postby Shoju » Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:56 am

Yeah, with the new change to Molten Armor, I might try and get Student of the Mind.

Thanks for the link to the armory, Mine is currently Heavy Frost AoE

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... n=maredeus

and still just a wee 73.
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Postby KysenMurrin » Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:28 am

I'm wondering which is more valuable now, Student of the Mind or Spell Impact.

Ice Lance and Fireball are used only when I get one of the 15% chance procs, and it's a 2% buff to those spells versus a 3% spirit increase for each of the two points I have available to move between the two. 3% Spirit increase -> 1.2% increase to crit rating gained from Spirit, whcih seems small. I have to put at least 4 points between those two talents to reach TtW, just debating the distribution.
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Postby Flex » Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:07 pm

Shoju wrote:Yeah, with the new change to Molten Armor, I might try and get Student of the Mind.

Thanks for the link to the armory, Mine is currently Heavy Frost AoE

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... n=maredeus

and still just a wee 73.


I never noticed you were on my server.
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Re: [Mage-PVE] Ideas on a Frost Mage raiding build 3.1

Postby Shoju » Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:37 am

Hey a fellow Terenas-ian :)

Sorry if you guys get annoyed with me on Ally Side. I have a bank alt named Hordeshopper on the ally side who I use to scout/aid both sides......

I sell you guys toads at WAY cheaper prices than they normally sell for on your side, and I buy things that you sell cheap and gouge the horde. I love it.
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