How will your Guild handle Dual Spec, Invites & Loot

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Re: How will your Guild handle Dual Spec, Invites & Loot

Postby Shoju » Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:08 am

We are a 10 man raiding guild with 25-30 part time raiders. We don't have a distinction between populace and raiders. If you are in the guild, you can sign up and get in on raids. If you show that you suck a lot, we might ask you to improve gear and provide SS's of moderate self buffed dps on Target dummies, or successful tank/heals in hard heroics before you come back. We normally don't /gkick, and we don't have silly rules about how often you raid, when you raid, etc.... As long as you show up, have consumables, and don't be dumb, you raid.

Marsha wrote:How will your Guild handle Dual Spec, Invites & Loot in 3.1?

Dual Spec opens up lots of possibilities, so I'd like to find out what other guilds are planing to do. I realize many readers here don't make decisions on invites and loot, but have you seen any discussion on it in your guild forums or on your vent?

Have your guild members been preparing for this change? If so how?


We have always welcomed off spec-ing for anyone, and in our loot system, you can 'greed' an item and if no one wants it for main spec, it is given to the highest off spec for free.

Will you see more or less swapping of classes in 3.1?

We already have multiple people with multiple 80's. I'm sure some of the hybrids might just play the hybrid, but I know an RL friend who hates tanking on his druid, and would rather tank on his DK. I only have 1 80, and a mage on the way up. Mage will not Dual Spec.

Will your guild essentially resort to pug rules on loot? e.g. Mains>Off Spec?

This is what we do now. We use EP/GP for our loot system, and this works fine for us.

How do you keep loot fair with classes that can use a lot more than others?

Currently, you will declare your 'main spec' you will pay for loot for that spec no matter what your role for the evening is, and you greed the off spec stuff.

Do you regularly run with competent Players capable of playing a 2nd spec with skill?

Our best boomkin is also a great tank, I'm a fairly competent tank, and an ok healer, as well as being high up there on the dps. We should have no problems with people DS-ing.

I've noticed a number have posted they plan to set up two different Prot specs. Do you think this is the best use of this new feature?

I'm allergic to the prot tree. I tank heroics as Ret.

Will your guild be going for a straight clear, or going for achievements?

Probably clear first with any achievements that fall into our laps, and then go back for achievements.

Will you continue to run current content and if so for how long?


Depends. If we have a 'group' of raiders ready for ulduar, and a group of raiders not, we will just have a ulduar group and a naxx group. If we have everyone ready in time, we will just have 2 10 man ulduar locks, and Naxx and 25sarth0d will get pushed to the backburner, while we work on fast maly and sarth3d. Once they are on 'farm' we will probably move them to off night (non scheduled runs) as well.
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Postby Sabindeus » Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:24 am

The same way we handle it now, except without all the running to Ironforge/Moonglade/Acherus to respec.
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Postby Selinaria » Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:28 am

Sabindeus wrote:The same way we handle it now, except without all the running to Ironforge/Moonglade/Acherus to respec.


QFT.

Roll for main spec, than offspec regardless of what your dual spec is.
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Postby Widdox » Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:46 am

Frankly I'm excited about dual spec. We constantly battle between having too many healers and not enough. Lately we've been having healers respec to dps and raid with us. Mainly because Naxx can be done with 4 healers easily, but I want to make sure we have a solid stable of healers for when uludar comes out.

I am going to be prot/holy. Most of our healers will be heals/dps. I expect that many healers will swap specs multiple times middle of runs to "have some fun", dps on trash etc.

Our main spec's will still get loot priority, as it should be.
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Postby Apollya » Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:53 am

How will your Guild handle Dual Spec, Invites & Loot in 3.1?

We'll invite mainspec as we do at the moment, unless balance requires us to ask someone to re-spec. The Dual spec will be free for each members personal use, they can spec PvP, Alternate Tree PvE or whatever they like.

have you seen any discussion on it in your guild forums or on your vent?

Nopes but I'm the GM and it's similar to how we do it now.

Have your guild members been preparing for this change? If so how?

We've been offering Offspec loot on pretty much everything that no one needed. We've also allowed some to bring alts along on raids providing balance allows it

Will you see more or less swapping of classes in 3.1?

About the same we're not keen on swapping, unless it's in our benefit

Will your guild essentially resort to pug rules on loot? e.g. Mains>Off Spec?

We run at present on a Loot Council System. Our members get to choose the items they most want for each slot, called Priority Wishlist.
We role as follows: On Prio List > Need > Trialist > Offspec > Alts.


How do you keep loot fair with classes that can use a lot more than others?

Officers discuss Who deserves most (perhaps they passed before on it) Who has had the least loot, who needs the upgrade most, who receiveing will be of the most benefit to the raid. etc etc. basically our members have to trust us and not be loot-whores. loot-whores often cry about player X, Y and Z getting an item before them and don't think about the bigger picture. They are selfish and not team-motivated, they often find themselves causing issues and being guild kicked. That or they learn to be tolerant and see that the loot is not the most important factor and that having funan nd progressing is better

Do you regularly run with competent Players capable of playing a 2nd spec with skill?

Yeah

I've noticed a number have posted they plan to set up two different Prot specs. Do you think this is the best use of this new feature?

It's definately not the best use, no, but will be upto the individual player.


Will your guild be going for a straight clear, or going for achievements?

Clearing it till comfortable then achievements, trying hardmodes first run.

Will you continue to run current content and if so for how long?

No. unless we have time to spare then maybe Sarth 3D/malygos.
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Postby Ajax » Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:02 am

Simple dkps system for us main spec = prio and you pay main spec prices, off spec = 50dkp set price no matter what the item but to stop ppl paying less then swapping spec there is a catch, if you swap specs you have to pay full dkp for the items for that spec from over the last month.

Also off spec dkp only offered if the guild has enough shards for players enchants, think they want a min of 30 shards in guild bank, but if you buy a shard from AH within 24 hours then even this can be bypassed
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Postby yappo » Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:30 pm

We're a tiny guild, so we'll do as we do now. Have a conversation about who needs most to benefit the guild.

We'll most likely regress to easier heroics for a while to let healer dps, warrior-dps tank and tank (me) heal. (I foresee wipe-fests we didn't think were possible)

In reality those of us who are interested in other roles (or at least agree to try them) have already geared well enough for those roles to run Naxx 10 and hc, but our skills most likely suck bigtime.

I guess your question in reality will have more importance for raid-pugs, something us people in small guilds have to run in in order to see 25-man content.
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Postby Shathus » Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:34 pm

IMO, giving out loot on guild runs will not be the problem for the majority of people. It's going to be the bigger issue in PUGs, especially raids. At least in 5 mans, there's 1 tank, 1 healer and 3 dps. The main specs there are well defined, even though I'm sure people will say they could 'use it for 2nd spec.' Naxx pugs, etc are going to be bad IMO. Especially when people will actually be switching specs mid-runs.

Master Looter ftw I guess.
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Postby Ilara » Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:37 pm

All members of OPB are aware and gearing appropriately to fill two chosen roles as needed to assist the raid as needs change.

As for loot, we employ the Russian roulette system.
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Re: How will your Guild handle Dual Spec, Invites & Loot

Postby knaughty » Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:53 pm

How will your Guild handle Dual Spec, Invites & Loot in 3.1?

Easily.

Dual Spec opens up lots of possibilities, so I'd like to find out what other guilds are planing to do. I realize many readers here don't make decisions on invites and loot, but have you seen any discussion on it in your guild forums or on your vent?

Little discussion, as outcome in my guild is entirely determined by our history, charter and attitude.

Have your guild members been preparing for this change? If so how?

Most tanks and healers have collected DPS off-sets. Two DPS DKs have collected tanking sets, as has a ret pally.

If you're quick, you can see My ret set as I happen to have it on - was checking what I need to finish off. This is a pretty typical off-set for my guild. The reserve plate tanks have even better (basically the reserve tanks have pretty much BiS gear).
Will you see more or less swapping of classes in 3.1?

We don't swap classes now. We did in Sunwell, we won't in Ulduar.

Will your guild essentially resort to pug rules on loot? e.g. Mains>Off Spec?

This is already part of our DKP system.

How do you keep loot fair with classes that can use a lot more than others?

Main spec > off-spec.

Off spec loot gets a 90% DKP discount.

Do you regularly run with competent Players capable of playing a 2nd spec with skill?

Yes.

I've noticed a number have posted they plan to set up two different Prot specs. Do you think this is the best use of this new feature?

Not for me or my guild. Might make some sense for prot warriors. Two DK tanking specs is probably viable. Doesn't seem like a good use of current paladin trees.

• Our bestiality druids are going bear/kitty.
• I'm going PvE Ret as off-spec.
• Our DK tanks are off-speccing from PvE DPS main spec.
• Unsure warriors, but believe their off-spec will be Fury.


Will your guild be going for a straight clear, or going for achievements?

We will do a full clear first to get the title, we missed the server first titles for 3.0 as people had jobs and thus we were a little slow to 80 compared to one other guild on the server.

Second clear we will do hard modes.

Achievements come last (unless they're completed by doing the hard-mode).

Will you continue to run current content and if so for how long?

We will not run 3.0 content at all once Ulduar is released.

I'm interested in all points of view.

Mine is "Progression hard-core guild".
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Postby aranil » Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:23 pm

Ilara wrote:All members of OPB are aware and gearing appropriately to fill two chosen roles as needed to assist the raid as needs change.

As for loot, we employ the Russian roulette system.


...do you guys constanstly recuit as well to replace lost members?
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Postby Digren » Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:57 pm

Several people mention that DKP solves these problems, but I don't see how.

Some classes have more overlap between gear for their specs that others. Paladins have virtually no overlap between gear worn in holy, protection, or ret. To collect two viable sets of gear, paladins need two complete sets of gear. The same can't be said for all other classes, most notably the non-hybrid classes (though of course some exceptions do exist for specific stats better in one spec than another). That seems like an inequity that DKP can't solve.

Then, there's the problem with charging people for off-spec gear if the raid expects to require an off spec. It makes sense to have a protection paladin (or a feral druid or a boomkin or a shadow priest) dual-spec holy/restoration for fights were another healer could help more than another whatever. But if those people are expected to lose DKP (that they could have saved for their primary spec gear), what incentive do they have to bother with a second spec at all? I guess I don't buy the most logical answer ("for the good of the raid") because, for the good of the raid, why isn't off-spec gear simply free?
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Postby masterpoobaa » Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:13 pm

How will your Guild handle Dual Spec, Invites & Loot in 3.1?
Easily enough

Dual Spec opens up lots of possibilities, so I'd like to find out what other guilds are planing to do. I realize many readers here don't make decisions on invites and loot, but have you seen any discussion on it in your guild forums or on your vent?
A little

Have your guild members been preparing for this change? If so how?
Gossiping about what specs they will be

Will you see more or less swapping of classes in 3.1?
More, but not insanely so

Will your guild essentially resort to pug rules on loot? e.g. Mains>Off Spec?
We run dkp, so the rules are pretty simple. You enter a raid as a main spec, and you get to roll on loot as that mainspec, even if you respec for a particular boss.


How do you keep loot fair with classes that can use a lot more than others?
DKP. U get to omuch loot u run out of dkp and others get prefrence.

Do you regularly run with competent Players capable of playing a 2nd spec with skill?
Fortunately yes.

I've noticed a number have posted they plan to set up two different Prot specs. Do you think this is the best use of this new feature?
2 prot specs? probably not. 1 spec for me seems to work well with pretty much everyone. My offspec wil be holy

Will your guild be going for a straight clear, or going for achievements?
clear

Will you continue to run current content and if so for how long?
for as long as people want to
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Postby Levantine » Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:31 pm

aranil wrote:
Ilara wrote:All members of OPB are aware and gearing appropriately to fill two chosen roles as needed to assist the raid as needs change.

As for loot, we employ the Russian roulette system.


...do you guys constanstly recuit as well to replace lost members?


Considering we haven't lost anyone at all in months, no.
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Postby PsiVen » Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:35 pm

Our rules won't change: You only get loot priority on your "main" spec. The only change is when we have people respec we won't have to reimburse them and won't have them go away. Council decisions for offspec are based on who actually uses their offspec in raids, and is /randomed if it's all going outside raid usage.
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