3.1 survival build

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3.1 survival build

Postby Halnoth » Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:09 pm

I would like opinions on this build. I have seen elements of this particular build discussed here and there but nothing really definitive.

Basically I make a couple assumtions here. First, that the new parry weapon ench has at least a moderate proc rate. Second, there is no ret paladin in the raid. Third, threat continues to be a non-issue in ulduar or at least is manageable without any additional threat talents.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?paladin ... rsion=9684

The idea behind this build is to maximize survival as MT. I picked up reckoning to increase JoL procs, and to synergize with the new weapon enchant. I picked up divinity for the JoL healing increase of 10% on me and 5% on the raid (again this is assuming there is no ret paladin in the raid and even if there is a ret paladin in the raid the healing from SoL is still increased if you are really in need of that extra HPS).

So basically I would like an opinion on this build. Am I correct that this would increase TTL? or am I completely off here concerning threat and the extra survivability will not be worth the hit to threat?
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Postby Conaan! » Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:13 pm

the dps loss is too large, and the overhealing of SoL/JoL and the possible boss parries from reckoning procs kinda screw you over

really, the LoH/aura mastery build is probally best in terms of survival rate
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Postby majiben » Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:23 pm

I still dispute this claim about imp LoH being an excellent survival build. The CD is far too long for regualr use and if it is used preemptively it precludes you from using it in the event of a spike. Not to mention it only affects physical, nonbleed damage.

Aura mastery is so weak I would go so far as to say piss poor. It's about a 2% reduction in physical damage when activated and that's for a low amount of time. Even the elemental aura boost is only a 11-16% reduction in damage. And if you do pick up both imp LoH and Aura mastery you have to drop core tanking talents.
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Postby Fridmarr » Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:25 pm

Majiben wrote:I still dispute this claim about imp LoH being an excellent survival build. The CD is far too long for regualr use and if it is used preemptively it precludes you from using it in the event of a spike. Not to mention it only affects physical, nonbleed damage.

Aura mastery is so weak I would go so far as to say piss poor. It's about a 2% reduction in physical damage when activated and that's for a low amount of time. Even the elemental aura boost is only a 11-16% reduction in damage. And if you do pick up both imp LoH and Aura mastery you have to drop core tanking talents.


Well what would be the alternative?
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Postby majiben » Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:29 pm

Threat and ultility.
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Postby Halnoth » Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:09 pm

Conaan! wrote:the dps loss is too large, and the overhealing of SoL/JoL and the possible boss parries from reckoning procs kinda screw you over

really, the LoH/aura mastery build is probally best in terms of survival rate


but if the new ench has a decent proc rate then the parry increase might off set the possible boss parry.

The JoL/SoL idea is to increase your TTL (which was one of my questions) in that if for some reason you are not being healed JoL/SoL will kick in to save you for a few more seconds.

This is worst case scenario thinking. Over healing in a worst case senario (and to me a worst case senario would invovle not being healed for a period of time) JoL/SoL would kick in to save you for a few extra seconds.

A comment like yours about overhealing is not really answering my question b/c I am assuming these bosses are doing huge amounts of dmg either through actual hits or aoe dmg, so we could assume heals are barely getting to you.

You say loss in dps? How does that matter if the boss is beating you down this much?
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Postby majiben » Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:14 pm

Burst are usually considered the worst case scenario. I have yet to die of neglect by healers (I have however died to the neglect of dispellers on maexxna).
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Postby Fridmarr » Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:14 pm

Majiben wrote:Threat and ultility.


No, I mean if you were going to maximize survivability what would be the alternate spec? I realize the Imp LoH stuff may not have the impact you'd like, but they increases in survivability to some degree.
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Postby majiben » Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:18 pm

There isn't any other means of increasing survival through talents. I still don't like taking it. I feel it ranks just above ceasing auto attacks to prevent parry haste. Now I am being a bit dramatic but my point still stands that the benefits are nothing close to be wowed at. If we feel the need to spec for these talents we are in a position that we shouldn't be. That is that all the other tanking classes can handle the fights better and we don't belong tanking those fights.
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Postby Halnoth » Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:25 pm

Majiben wrote:Burst are usually considered the worst case scenario. I have yet to die of neglect by healers (I have however died to the neglect of dispellers on maexxna).


I have died because a healer has died and we had only one healer left for heals on me and the raid. However wouldn't reckoning synergize with the new parry ench thus increasing the chance of you avoiding some burst? and on top of that doing more dmg since the next parry after the ench procs does more dmg?
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