What's with the reckoning posts for 3.1? The real MT build

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What's with the reckoning posts for 3.1? The real MT build

Postby slickesq » Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:46 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I seriously doubt if anyone can realistically gear to the parry cap. Given that a good MT is standing in front of the mob, why are people even considering points in reckoning?

More white swings = more boss parries.
More boss parries = more boss mob swings per second
More mobs swings per second = less time until death

Threat seems to be a non-issue for anyone using a 96969 rotation with proper gear so IMO a MT's only focus should be staying alive in the boss fight.

Why are tanks speccing trash? Trash doesn't wipe raids, bosses killing the tank wipes raids.

Here's what I think is THE tank spec for anyone who hopes to tank a boss in 3.1. Even you are OT, I don't see any reason to vary from this spec seeing as how your primary role is to tank when the MT can't

http://ptr.wowhead.com/?talent=sVZE0tAbuMuIIRGoxs

I've had a brain flash and think that this may also be good build

http://ptr.wowhead.com/?talent=sZE0tAbuMuIIRGoxsrz

I never got you guys who thought more speed was useful for anything, isn't that what AS, and two taunts are for?

I always value the input found on Maintankadin so feel free to comment on build. I think I can defend every point spent
Last edited by slickesq on Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Dorvan » Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:56 pm

There are plenty of variations available once 3.1 hits, with different benefits for different situations. Given the focus of your build, I think you'd do well to consider a 12/53/6 or 13/52/6 build. In either of those you lose Heart of the Crusader (whose value greatly depends on the context of your build, certainly not a "must have"), plus some early prot points to pick up Imp LoH and possibly Aura mastery.

The core build for 3.1 is 0/53/6, with the points in Divinity available for a number of possible early prot distributions, and the possible exception of pulling a point or two from GbtL for a couple builds like 13/52/6


edit -- also Vindication is useless against bosses.
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Postby Grizwold » Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:58 pm

Enchant Weapon - Blade Ward *New Enchant* - Permanently enchants a weapon to sometimes grant Blade Warding when striking an enemy. Blade Warding increases your parry rating by 200 and inflicts 600 to 800 damage on your next parry. Effect can stack up to 5 times and lasts 10 sec. This enchantment requires the wielder is at least level 75.

As far as I'm concerned, if they put a somewhat high proc rate (6-7ppm) on this, the extra procs gained from extra htis due to reckoning actually outweighs the increase in white parries on the boss. Also, most MT pallies are close (and in ulduar even closer) to the parry cap. Our warrior MT right now is at the parry cap. If i slightly re-gear I am only ~ .75% from it. and the gains from that enchant would more than likely outweigh the .75%(times reckoning uptime) increase is boss damage.
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Re: Dorvan

Postby slickesq » Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:03 pm

Thanks for your input Dorvan but I've always had an issue with going deeper into the holy tree. Yes, ILoH would be very sweet but I htink you waste 5 points getting there. As a tank my heals are laughable and any fear or stun on me will be knock off by the big boss trying to eat my face.

People are overlooking the usfulnees of divinity. Not only does it increase your heals, it increases heals on you. That's huge when the only think keeping a MT alive is the heals done on you. I'm not sure it applie to all heals or just DoTs but at least resto druids will become godly if not everyone by my speccing into divinity.
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Re: Grizwold

Postby slickesq » Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:05 pm

Sorry Grizwold, I misspoke when I said parry cap. I did not mean our parry cap. I meant getting enough expertise to reduce the boss's chance to parry to zero. I haven't heard of anything that will make us hit this expertinse capp while still remianing a good tank.
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Re: Dorvan

Postby Dorvan » Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:11 pm

Thanks for your input Dorvan but I've always had an issue with going deeper into the holy tree. Yes, ILoH would be very sweet but I htink you waste 5 points getting there. As a tank my heals are laughable and any fear or stun on me will be knock off by the big boss trying to eat my face.


In a 25 man raid you're probably wasting your 3 points in HotC anyway, so that's only 2 points you have to pull from elsewhere to get to Imp LoH. I think there's a decent argument to be made that DG does more harm than good to a tank, though it may depend on how often you cast SS on yourself.


slickesq wrote:People are overlooking the usfulnees of divinity. Not only does it increase your heals, it increases heals on you. That's huge when the only think keeping a MT alive is the heals done on you. I'm not sure it applie to all heals or just DoTs but at least resto druids will become godly if not everyone by my speccing into divinity.


There's already an 11 page thread on this, so I won't go into it here....I suggest you read it and make up your own mind :)

You're build certainly has merits, but I think the idea of a single be-all-end-all tanking build is history, and I like it that way: much more interesting than "all 59/12, all the time".
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Re: Grizwold

Postby Grizwold » Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:18 pm

slickesq wrote:Sorry Grizwold, I misspoke when I said parry cap. I did not mean our parry cap. I meant getting enough expertise to reduce the boss's chance to parry to zero. I haven't heard of anything that will make us hit this expertinse capp while still remianing a good tank.


thats what I was talking about. In my normal tanking gear I am about 1.5% over the expertise cap. the parry cap i believe is still 15%(60) right? Im sitting in my expertise tanking gear (with expertise food) at 57 rating. Given I dont use it that much because it has a lower EH than my other set, its not that hard to get too... Also, with the look of most of ulduar gearing having a HUGE amount of hit or parry, I dont see any reason why we wouldnt be able to get to 60 expertise.

10 from glyph, 6 from talent, 5 from food = 21 alone from non-gear related things. so 39 from gear is ~320 rating which although is alot, isn't insane...
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Postby slickesq » Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:21 pm

Touche' Dorvan the 3 points in HotC are pretty much wasted if you have any other decent pally in the raid (even healers may have this is going crit specced) HOwever, a tank will still need 3 more points to get ILoH. I could see the 2 from DG but personally, I have found DG to be a very useful talent when you're in a boss fight but not in a phse that requires you to hold any aggro. Like, for example, Malygos phase 2 when all the tank is doing is running from bubble to bubble while the real dps go fly away and kill stuff.

That being said, I could dcertainly see speccing into ILoH when you know you have to hold aggro the whole fight. As for aura mastery, the only person that IMO ever outranges the reg aura is a hunter with sniper training, and they're on their own if they want me to waste another point just to protect their butts.

On a side note, I think that all OT pallies should be required to have DG. I mean you have an opportunity to reduce raid damage by 30% so if you're not holding threat why not?
Last edited by slickesq on Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Dorvan » Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:23 pm

slickesq wrote:Touche' Dorvan the 3 points in HotC are pretty much wasted if you have any other decent pally in the raid (even healers may have this is going crit specced) HOwever, a tank will still need 3 more points to get ILoH. I could see the 2 from DG but personally, I have found DG to be a very useful talent when you're in a boss fight but not in a phse that requires you to hold any aggro. Like, for example, Malygos phase 2 when all the tank is doing is running from bubble to bubble while the real dps go fly away and kill stuff.


My point with DG is that you already get the ability to take the edge off with DSac....DG just makes it more likely that you kill yourself while taking that edge off.

you should also take a look at the new Aura Mastery, all auras have been switched to 40 yards baseline now.
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Postby slickesq » Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:27 pm

Different playstyles I guess Grizwold. Personally, I grab the gear with more focus on survivability over expertise. I eat the Stam/Str food for more block value. I guess you could focus and get expertise but, for me, I prefer to increase my survivability as much as possible while leaving the dps to the dspers.
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Postby slickesq » Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:33 pm

DSac takes the damage without your immunity bubble up. That sounds like it may hurt a little.

DG takes it while you're immune so nothing lost except threat.

Now . . . if DSac and DG stacked then I'll have to go change my pants, but I bet they don't. So without the 2 in DG you're blowing two cooldowns for the same effect (Shield and DSac) May work, of course if you have both then you can go DG once and then DSac with my 50% reduction in 3 mins.
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Postby Dorvan » Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:49 pm

slickesq wrote:DSac takes the damage without your immunity bubble up. That sounds like it may hurt a little.

DG takes it while you're immune so nothing lost except threat.

Now . . . if DSac and DG stacked then I'll have to go change my pants, but I bet they don't. So without the 2 in DG you're blowing two cooldowns for the same effect (Shield and DSac) May work, of course if you have both then you can go DG once and then DSac with my 50% reduction in 3 mins.


DG has been changed. It no longer is an independent ability, but rather increased the redirection of DSac by 5/10% and the absorption of your Sacred Shield by 10/20%.

http://www.failsafedesign.com/maintanka ... 052#391052

Hence my comments about DG being arguably worse for Tankadins than DSac by itself.
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Postby slickesq » Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:59 pm

my only issues with not grabbing DG then is why make the pally healer specc that deep into prot? Ithink raid will be better served if Tank picks it up so that healer and go get some more crit in the ret tree.
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Postby Dorvan » Wed Mar 11, 2009 2:03 pm

slickesq wrote:my only issues with not grabbing DG then is why make the pally healer specc that deep into prot? Ithink raid will be better served if Tank picks it up so that healer and go get some more crit in the ret tree.


Why does someone need to pick up DG? It's DSac that provides the main utility benefit.
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Postby Panzerdin » Wed Mar 11, 2009 2:12 pm

DG is like DSac, but doesn't require you to take damage, and absorbs twice as much. Why wouldn't you take it?
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