[10] Sarth +2/+3 DPS problems

[Rolfson]

After farming OS for a good while and getting +1 down with no problem, my guild and I decided to try for +2. We are having huge dps problems getting Tenebron down before the 2nd wave, even with 2 tanks and 2 healers. Here is the setup we run with:

Warrior Tank (MT, on Sarth)
Pally Tank(me, I pick up Tenebron and all the adds)
Resto Shammy
Holy Pally
Shadow Priest
Affliction Warlock
Fury Warrior
Boomkin
Elemental Shammy
Frost/Unholy hybrid DK

Now we have never had any problems with dps before, but we can never seem to get tenebron down quick enough. Even popping heroism doesnt give us quite enough dps to down him before the 2nd wave of spawns, he normally has about 100-150k health when he spawns the 2nd portal. All the dps are mostly Naxx 25 geared, so is there anything I can do to help get more dps? Adds arent a problem, but I can only hold Tenebron + Vesperon + 2 waves of adds for so long. Thanks for the help!



My tank set: http://chardev.org/?template=145271
(currently in holy gear so i cant link armory)

[majiben]

Could be synergy issues. You should only have 2 of the 3 following if you want maximum synergy: Shadow Priest, Boomkin, Elemental shaman with the warning that dropping the shaman is usually a bad idea. The Warrior and the DK only really have each other for synergy (And BoM).

Also are you mostly a 10 man guild? 25 man gear helps a lot but is not strickly needed.

[Rolfson]

well we farm 25 man naxx with usually one or no wipes every week. The 25 man naxx isnt a problem at all, and we normally run with around 50-60k group dps in there. I'm not quite sure why the dps cant kill tenebron quick enough.

edit: what would you say to replace the boomkin/shadow priest?

[majiben]

Hard to say. You could get an enhancement shaman for the other two melee (though depending on your DK's spec he may cover most of an enhancement shaman's ultility.) feral druid, or an arms warrior or another caster, prehaps a demon lock (not sure how his pet would fair but it would give a boost to spell power) or mage.

Now you don't need to do that if they're good players but it could be an option.

[Rolfson]

Feral druid would be very possible, we have a couple well geared ones in the guild. Occasionally we would bring in a hunter. Anyway, so there are no gimmicks (besides fire wall) that I just simply dont know about that are gimping the dps? Tenebron is being tanked sideways so the melee aren't getting parried.

[majiben]

Well the DK and warrior are likely missing sunder armor and 5% melee cirt. Keeping the SP might be in your best interest since they are your only replenishment class.

[Rolfson]

so the optimum setup would drop the boomkin and pick up a fury warrior for sunder or a feral druid for 5% melee crit?

[majiben]

You already have a furry warrior who can put up sunders, I assumed the group would be experiencing a net dps lose if he put up sunder armor due to only having two melee dps. If the group would experience a net gain now he should be already doing it. An arms warrior is the one that has a 5% melee crit buff.

If a Demo warlock can keep his felguard alive for at least the first two drakes then your group could benefit from his 10% more spell power buff (the lock would also have to be a good dps).

Sounds like a use of a feral driud would be good for you if you want to go the subsitution route.

[Avengeance]

AFAIK the demo lock buff on +sp does not stack with Ele's totem of wrath. Pet classes is not particularly easy to play on Sarth 10+3, so I wouldnt recommend using Demo locks. Group setup helps DPS, but most classes should be able to put out 4k DPS alone in Naxx25 gear with only a few buffs, and probably burst into the 6Ks with bloodlust and trinks. I think you should work on getting your dpsers to do their best.

[Rolfson]

well right now the fury warrior is our top dps at nearing 6k fully raid buffed, w/o sunders. hes closely followed by the affliction lock, and we dont have any demo locks in the guild (that are geared enough) so it does look like feral druid would be the best bet. I think we will try again tonight, Ill have to see how it goes

[majiben]

Just want to say while I enjoyed discussing the group setup I want to stress that this is but one aspect and not the largest one. That is to say there are other things that need to be addressed in addition to the group comp (if the comp needs reworking at all).

[Rolfson]

well so far the fire walls arent a problem, by the time we wipe its just one or two misses for the raid. It goes smoothly, just tenebron isnt down by the time the second drake lands, which leads to the wipe.

[Avengeance]

Actually most of the time, tenebron isnt meant to die before Shadron lands... your DPS check is whether you can kill tenebron before second WHELPS spawn. Get your drake tank to shieldwall the time while tanking double drakes.

Another thing to keep in mind is, are your DPSers threat capped? Sometimes its the tanks not making enough threat thats capping DPS'ers output.

[Rolfson]

well as far as threat the dps never pulls off of me. I use hand of salvation (along with the holy pally) every time it is up to assure this. I always had the misinterpretation that tenebron was supposed to go down before the 2nd portal of whelps went up, meaning 13-15 seconds before the 2nd drake even spawned. So that makes the fight seem a good bit easier, i'll have to see how it goes tonight. Thanks for all the help, i'll get back later on how the run went.

[Talaran]

Be honest, most of the times we do 3 drakes we don't get tenebron down before the second set of adds :-/