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[Prot-PvP] Crash Course in Arena PVP, for the Tournament

Ret, Holy, PVP, etc

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Postby Panzerdin » Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:38 pm

What you worry about as prot is strength and block value. Everything else just doesn't matter.

But seriously, if you want a snowball's chance in hell, respec. Otherwise, you'll be ripped to pieces.
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Postby Splug » Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:54 pm

I believe it's 5% hit. Expertise is going to vary from target to target, but overall it's not worthwhile. If you can get behind a player, they can't dodge or parry. Likewise, casters cannot dodge or parry while casting. Rogues with a movement advantage (IE: crippling on you) are one of the only classes that can reliably keep themselves facing a target, and then you're looking at about 100-150 expertise skill to catch up to their dodge, depending on gear. During evasion, it'd be closer to 300 expertise. Seeing as that's one class out of ten - and the one you'll already be in good shape against if they're on you - I wouldn't worry about it.

And yeah - your mana pool is going to point at ret, not holy. If anything, dive at the other team and try to look intimidating so you eat some CC - at least then they're paying you some attention rather than just shrugging you off entirely.

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Postby Panzerdin » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:06 pm

If you're bent on it, starting with a 2-hander and using a weapon swap macro might help.
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Postby Splug » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:15 pm

We DID hit a prot paladin in 2v2 once, back when shield of righteousness was broken. We rushed him thinking he was ret in an effort to force the shield, but after a few seconds of not dieing and watching the purge list I realized something was amiss, and then when we heard the signature CLANG from HoR the jig was up. It was quickly followed by the fastest damage switch I've ever seen.

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Postby Dane » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:13 pm

Digren wrote:To get the pet only, it is 200 games during the qualifying period, which starts around March 11 and lasts four weeks.

There are warcraftpets or similar channels on each tournament server, per www.warcraftpets.com, which can be used to find teammates with similar interests (pet only or winning record).

The rules do indicate that you must try to win to qualify for the pet. That means you can't walk in and stand while being killed 200 times. I would like to win ~20 games, as my personal goal, out of the 200 played, and at least put up an effort the remaining 180 times.

To get the title, you must earn a certain ranking during the tournament. I don't hope to achieve that.


Awesome, thanks for the info.

It actually sounds like fun, so I wouldn't try to cheese it and just "buy" the pet without actually playing, but I have little to no hope in actually doing well, so I wanted to make sure it wouldn't be a huge waste.
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Postby Digren » Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:05 pm

Splug wrote:We DID hit a prot paladin in 2v2 once, back when shield of righteousness was broken. We rushed him thinking he was ret in an effort to force the shield, but after a few seconds of not dieing and watching the purge list I realized something was amiss, and then when we heard the signature CLANG from HoR the jig was up. It was quickly followed by the fastest damage switch I've ever seen.

-Splug


If I do a combo prot/holy or prot/ret build, I have considered not going deep enough into the tree for HoR. That might make it a better idea. (Though I see that most people think any sort of prot, even for someone who has never played holy or ret, is a bad idea.)
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Postby bub64882 » Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:52 pm

Go balls out holy. Beacon can really piss off your opponents in 3V3. Keep beacon on yourself, and heal your teamates. Holy is dominating right now, so I don't think you'd find a shortage of strategies out there.
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Re: Crash Course in Arena PVP as Prot, for the Tournament

Postby alayire » Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:09 am

Digren wrote:My teammates will be a PVP-savvy restoration shaman (who also could be a DPS DK), and my wife, a warlock (who has been affliction 90% of her life, but plans to try demonology for the tournament).
i'm not pretending this is the holy bible of truth and all, but from my personal experience and my friend's experience who has been a warlock from his very begining, warlocks are just busted and horribly bad atm for pvp.
i'm not exactly sure as to why, but what i have noticed is that they seem to be made out of paper glass and die to about any other class with ease.

so with that in mind ... i'd say moust of your matches will be like .. after 3-4 seconds your warlock will moust likely die. at the very best they will always focus on your warlock instead of you. sooo .. i'm not exactly sure how you will plan to distract them from that fact.

if you are asking yourself why i pointed this out to you, it's because if you plan to win anything, you must think in advance and see what can you provide to the team, and what can they provide for you and get some coheason.
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Re: Crash Course in Arena PVP as Prot, for the Tournament

Postby Digren » Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:31 am

alayire wrote:
Digren wrote:My teammates will be a PVP-savvy restoration shaman (who also could be a DPS DK), and my wife, a warlock (who has been affliction 90% of her life, but plans to try demonology for the tournament).
i'm not pretending this is the holy bible of truth and all, but from my personal experience and my friend's experience who has been a warlock from his very begining, warlocks are just busted and horribly bad atm for pvp.
i'm not exactly sure as to why, but what i have noticed is that they seem to be made out of paper glass and die to about any other class with ease.

so with that in mind ... i'd say moust of your matches will be like .. after 3-4 seconds your warlock will moust likely die. at the very best they will always focus on your warlock instead of you. sooo .. i'm not exactly sure how you will plan to distract them from that fact.

if you are asking yourself why i pointed this out to you, it's because if you plan to win anything, you must think in advance and see what can you provide to the team, and what can they provide for you and get some coheason.


Yeah, she was looking for PVP specs and strat last night and couldn't find... anything... from the last six months. It seems the class just doesn't PVP much at this point.

Oh well. We are, after all, pretty much just in it for the pet. It's our fault if we stand there and let them kill us, but it's not our fault if Blizzard can't design certain classes/specs to be viable, and those are all we play.
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Postby Panzerdin » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:09 am

You spec Holy. Your Resto friend picks a DPS DK. Your wife picks up a class than can faceroll massive damage. It really isn't that hard to learn - I borrowed a friend's rogue once and was beating people I knew to be fairly competent (i.e. knew WTF they were doing) within an hour's learning.
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Postby PsiVen » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:24 am

There's no reason to write off Prot automatically. If you have a healer (the shaman) on your team Prot is fairly strong. Unfortunately the ideal setup would be prot + DK with some tank gear + resto shaman.

Holy + DK + Lock might be interesting, if you can work out the healing.
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Postby Splug » Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:53 pm

Warlocks tend to rely on heavy sustained damage, and a very strong ability to finish targets at low health. However, they don't have on-demand burst damage like rogues or mages; it's mostly nightfall (proc based) or drain soul (low health only), so they tend to perform poorly against damage-heavy teams (which are unfortunately quite common at the moment). However, against damage/healer combinations warlocks can be extremely strong by executing a long control chain on a healer while focussing primarily on their teamate. It requires a lot of resilience to survive, keeping track of two or more targets and keeping dot's on everything, and is not easy - but it can be a strong class in arenas.

Your group would likely revolve around the warlock slowing down their damage initially with early fears while trying to get damage over time effects on everyone. Once the dot storm is in place, fear the healer to put them behind, spell lock him when he comes out (for the silence, if you get an interrupt even better but just need to prevent instant casts), fear again, and expect either a trinket or bubble - if it's the trinket, death coil to keep the chain alive and call for the HoJ. If it's divine shield, refresh dots while it expires then try again. Keep in mind - you're likely to need to run the whole thing with the warlock under fire, so mobility is going to be limited and instant casts will be easier to get off.

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Postby Panzerdin » Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:59 pm

While your Warlock is trying to do this, remember to HoP him/her, because he/she is likely to need it.
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Postby Dane » Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:33 am

I know this still isn't really the right place for it...but I'm at work, and I try to avoid Blizzards pages (probably wouldn't be a problem, but since I actually have WoW on my work laptop...I don't want to push my luck), and this is really the WoW community I trust the most.

Anyway...anyone know when I actually have to be registered for this thing by? My primary motivator is still the pet, but I'll try my best to do as well as I can...so if it's just not worth it at this point, let me know.
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Prot pvp

Postby Sapphires » Sat Mar 07, 2009 7:33 am

Just from some personal experience playing prot and doing pvp, it isnt really that bad.

Gear
-----------
Aim for any gear you can find with high BV on it, preferably with strength and stamina. Defense rating is of negligible use, but it will increase your avoidance some.

Once you have put on all the BV gear you can get, fill in the rest with high resilience/strength/stamina/crit/hit/expertise ret pvp gear. Get the 84 resilience pvp trinket and essence of gossamar/anvil of the titans.

Get the Skull of Ruin from Naxx(10) - Grobbulus and enchant with +40 BV
Get the highest max dps 1 hand weapon you can, preferabbly pvp weapon with resilience.
Get a decent 2H weapon/pvp 2H.

Socket for resilience or strength. It helps to be a BS+JC, 3x27str, 20 resil gem, rest should resilience, strength, or stamina. Enchant similarly. DO NOT take ATP enchants; instead choose Resilience, Strength, Stamina, Crit, Expertise, Hit.

Team
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Your going to be best paring with at least one caster, if not 2. High DPS such as Mage, Spriest, Lock, Boomchicken, Ele Shaman that will not suffer when you BOP them. Healers should be very hard to kill in their own right and have cc, preferably Disc Priest, Resto Shaman, or Resto Druid. If you have additional team members, get classes with cc or stealth to limit the opposing teams targets. If the only person tey see is you, its much easiler to get them to focus on you. =D

Strategy
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As a tankadin, you deal with melee classes extremely well. Rogues, enhancement shamans, warriors are easiest, followed by dks that are too stupid to use mostly spells. These classes are ones that even if your party dies, you have a DECENT CHANCE OF SOLOING! Put on Seal of light. judge light, bless of sanctuary, and laugh as not only are they unable to kill you through your mitigation, they kill themselves on your shield. Save your burst dps for when they began to get low health to get them into Hammer of Wrath range or try to go off and heal. Practice duels with these classes to know how to respond.

So, knowing that you can deal with these on your own, next you have healers. Healers are a problem for you, so you probably need to take them out 1st. If there is a dps alive and a healer alive and you are alone, you will lose. If there is a healer alive alone, you can win if you time your abilities for max burst, stun, burst again to finish. If its a priest, and they decide to manaburn you and dispel you, your going to have a hard time winning.

Caster DPS. If they are squishy, they are ok to kill first if you can cc the healer. Otherwise, kill the healer, then focus on the casters. Do your burst dps early, then use your protective abilities on your partners during downtime. Heal if necessary. It is necessary that your partners keep the healer cc'd. BOP should allow you to ignore damage from melee and concentrate on getting the casters down.

Spec
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Improved Hammer of Justice, 30 sec CD is a must.
Speed on Boots or get the ret talent for speed.
Rest of the talents are pretty much standard for tanking, make sure to get damage mitigation talents as they will really help against melee.

Practice
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Work with your team and decide which classes you have the hardest time with, and if you need to CC them until you get a numbers advantage, or burst them down early to keep them from being a problem later.

Decide on positioning, how to not LOS your team but make advantage of cover. If your healer is going to kite away, know ahead of time where they are going to go. AS, HOJ, JOJ are great for helping your team kite. SoR for burst dps and switch if you have health/mana issues. Use BoW at the start to keep mana going and turn on Bless of Sanctuary if you have melee hitting you. Use Concentration Aura if you team will benefit, otherwise use Devotion/Ret Aura.

Use Sacred Shield, BOP, Sacrifice, Freedom liberally. Make focus target or specific team member macros so you dont have to change targets.

Have fun. Your going to lose some games but not as many as you might think if you practice.
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