Heroics, when am I ready?

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Heroics, when am I ready?

Postby Waxxiemann » Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:49 am

Hey guys,

This is my first post. I'm a new pally tank and a fairly new WOW player in general. I'm hoping you guys can provide me with some advice on tanking heroics.

I'm currently at level 78 (almost 79) and I've been gathering mats and gear for when I hit 80 as well as running all the normal difficulty dungeons. I'll have the basic titansteel stuff ready for when I ding (helm,boots and sheild). I use the axe from Zul'Drak (can't remember the quest) right now.

I've got some decent level 80 tanking blues from the regular dungeons as well to complement this. My def is currently at around 498.

My question is this; will I be able to run Heroic UP (or any heroics in general) when I hit 80? I want to go in there straight away and get the Red Sword of courage.

A friend of mine tells me that I shouldn't even dream of it until I hit my DEF cap (540 from what I gather). I am interested to hear your thoughts.

Another friend of mine (a DPS DK) says the opposite, so I am confused. I've seen lots of pre raid gearing guides, but nothing really pertaining to heroics specifically (maybe I'm not looking hard enough).

Thanks very much,
Waxx
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Postby Epimer » Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:01 am

Get 535 defense (which is not a cap, but a minimum - cyan text incoming, I'm sure) and off you go.

It's easier with a group of friends or guildies, so you don't have to put up with the "only 22k HP? GTFO!" crap from LFG.
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Postby Waxxiemann » Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:08 am

Hey, thanks for the reply. So I should gem and enchant as much as I can then to hit the cap? Not really sure where I'll be with the new gear. I'm worried I'll still be pretty far off the cap when I hit 80.

Well at least I have an idea of what to shoot for. Any more input/advice is appreciated.

Thanks again.
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Postby Seloei » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:17 am

overall, you can actually do the heroics if you are still not crit capped but its risky, they dont hit that hard.
A good start would be the blacksmith craftable sets, (if you dont have the cash for the epics get the blues) and you are almost at the cap. Throw on a bunch of defense enchants and gems and you should be good to go. Just the blue daunting/savage set should see you unbuffed around 23-25k if you are gemmed/enchanted.

Oh, resilience is good to hit the crit cap also, so dont laugh at resilience, you are looking to remove 5.6% crit damage intake by either defense or defense+resilience. Wintergrasp new trinket is major good for reaching crit cap at start.

P.S. There are quite a lot of good topics/replies in the appropriate forum :)
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Postby Waxxiemann » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:43 am

Ok, good news. Thanks. I really need to look at what my DEF will be once I get the crafted gear on and I can work from there.

Thanks guys.
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Postby DanimalEQ » Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:56 pm

I'd also recommend taking a look at Eanin's guide for gearing up. Should help you have an idea what you want to shoot for to get to 535 defense as easily as possible.

I know I did the Wyrmrest Dailies early and often. There are a couple of really nice upgrades from there at revered for just starting out.
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Postby Viycktor » Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:50 pm

DanimalEQ wrote:I'd also recommend taking a look at Eanin's guide for gearing up. Should help you have an idea what you want to shoot for to get to 535 defense as easily as possible.

I know I did the Wyrmrest Dailies early and often. There are a couple of really nice upgrades from there at revered for just starting out.
This.

I had all the decent crafted BS pieces and the Wyrmrest revered chest and quest pieces (with perhaps a few non heroic drops) and hit 540 early on (only need 535 for heroics anyway). My HP wasn't impressive, but after focusing on getting some crafted items (I worked towards Northrend Loremaster to get easy gold) and getting a few drops I was surprised at how quickly my gear started to come together.

There are some decent BoE blues that drop in dungeons that you can sometimes find for very reasonable prices on the AH or from people in trade who just want to get rid of the item and make their quick 20-30 gold. (belt and neck are two notable ones that I grabbed to hold me over)

It sounds like you're ready to jump on alot of that already though. With the pieces you describe (titansteel, and also look at the daunting handguards/legs for good def pieces) you shouldn't have a problem hitting 535 at 80. I know I ran H UP before I (or any of our group) was well geared, and Skaldi was a real challenge for us. We got it down, but we wiped a good number of times that night. After running alot of other heroics, we went back and destroyed the place.

I just need to convince them to keep going back for my damn sword! (A mage friend of mine has it and likes to wear it around me... the indignity -although I offered to make him a weapon chain for it :lol:)
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Postby Riposte » Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:00 am

Honestly, there is no real good that will come from you running any heroics before you are uncrittable. There is also no reason to do it since it is very easy to hit the required 535 defense. I'd recommend running HoL until the 65 defense trinket drops, run normal UP and grab the chest reward and enchant it for defense, and with just those two items plus whatever other gear you have it should put you at, or very near the 535 needed.

My group wiped on Skadi a couple times last night because the retarded dps were holding onto the harpoons instead of shooting him down. Once we actually got into the fight it was easy, so just make sure everyone knows what to do before you start. I can't imagine any other portion of the instance giving anybody trouble.

As long as the tank and healer meet a basic minimum level of combined gear, heroics are generally just a check on the dps. Overgeared healers/tanks can help make up for weak dps, but if you have strong dps you won't get hit much at all. When I build groups I often have to make sure we are on heroic because mobs don't live long enough to hit me much. If your dps is that good, maybe you can go in under 535 defense, but I still wouldn't recommend it.
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Postby Marker » Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:24 am

I had the same attitude as you have and wanted to be as prepared as possible for HCs at 80. Get whatever you can as crafted (titansteel/Daunting) and off the AH (Burning skull pendant/Crusader's Square Pauldrons/Tattered Castle Drape) A good overview of what's available at .http://www.wowhead.com/?items=4&filter=minle=160;cr=3:42;crs=1:1;crv=0:0.

Case is that you can spend ages trying to get a group for a normal, but in most cases it's just not going to happen. You're better off clearly stating your stats in the LFG comment and you will still get invites even though your undergeared and under the def minimum. At least I did. The groups that invite you will then have considered your gear and found that what you lack in gear can be made up by the healer overgearing it or strong CC. It also shows that you have some grasp of the tanking requirements and that vouches for some tanking skills. Also, spend some money on a few elixirs, Elixir of Mighty Defense and Guru's Elixir/Elixir of Mighty Agility/Elixir of Mighty Strength (if you need HP, avoidance or threat, whatever you're lacking in the current group setup). Also food for the stam buff is a given.

All in all it's a nice way of making up for some of the poor gear and proves to the group that you're determined on doing your best at least. I got pugged by the same wastly overgeared people two nights in a row for 3-4 HC runs after I dinged 80 and after that I had gotten enough drops to have a decent tanking set. The upgrades come really fast once you start running HCs.
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Postby Waxxiemann » Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:28 am

Thanks for all the great replies guys. I really appreciate it. Well last night I managed to pick up both the Burning Skull Pendant and the Crusaders Square Pauldrons from Gun'Drak and COT respectively. I also managed to get a couple of nice tanking rings from a drop in Gun'Drak as well as a Quest ring (for the stone tablets in Gun'Drak).

I can't equip the pendant yet, but the rings and shoulders (as well as the daunting peices) put me to 510 DEF. I have my Titansteel gear being crafted tonight. I think that once I am able to equip this stuff at 80 I should manage to make at least 535 DEF. yippee.

I'm actually hoping I can either replace my Ragemanes flipper Axe (with the Titansteel bonecrusher) or my Wyrmrest honored Cape (both with Def) once I hit 80 provided I go over the cap.

I also have 4 dragons eyes so I'll pick up either the Earthgaurd chain or ring as well.

It's looking pretty good. Thanks again for all your insight guys, it was extremely helpful.

Tyler AKA Waxx
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Postby Marker » Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:38 am

I'd get the ring first, you won't replace that as fast as you will replace the chain, since the you can get the Military Chain something form Heroic marks.
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Postby Waxxiemann » Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:41 am

will do. thanks
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Postby Mozen » Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:44 am

Heroic UP was one of the first heroics I tanked, but by then I had every single piece of drop I want from regular dungeons and crafted head+shield+ring, and I was fully enchanted and gemmed. So I was definitely properly geared for it.

That aside, I think UP is not a gear check but more a skill check. Especially the Skadi gauntlet.

In my opinion you're more likely to die to Bane than to Ymiron himself. On my first run, hunter pet kept gnawling at Ymiron, so I took a lot of unnecessary damage; in fact, I died to Bane damage in the end and the hunter-healer duo finished off the last few percent.

Make sure you remind everyone about Bane. In fact, I suggest you make a macro to yell "BANE! Stop all attack!" and spam it when Bane is up.

PS: Earthguard Ring >>> neck. You'll get 25 emblems soon enough to get the emblem neck. That's what I did. Gearing speed picks up huge momentum once you enter heroics---here we have Blizzard to thank for these boring AOE fest heroics.
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Postby Asterial » Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:56 am

I think Heroic UP was also my first heroic run (I don't count VH as an instance... its just a non stop version of Ring of Blood).. I think the group were desperate for a tank and I'd only just dinged 80 about 2 days before.


If money is a bit flush at the moment you may consider shelling out for crafted armour...

TitanSteel Helm (excellent value now it has a meta socket)
TitanSteel Treads
Tempered Saronite Set (except gloves and leggings)
Daunted Gloves
Daunted Leggings
TitanSteel Shield Wall

The above armour will pretty much cap your defense and also has a lot of stamina on it. I'm sure you have managed to get trinkets/rings/necklace whilst leveling too...

If not you may still have some defense trinkets from back in BC.

The Venture Bay Co libram is also worth getting until you can get your Libram of Obstruction Heroic Emblem Reward.

Also maybe run a couple of easier heroics first. The Red Sword of Courage is notoriously low on droprate (even though they say its about 15%) and I see more tanks with the Naxx sword than the RSOC as it was easier to get.

Infantry Assault Blade is a really good upgrade from the Hammer of Quiet Mourning (lvl 75 quest Ragemanes Flipper - Zul'drak) and drops from the 2nd boss in Utgarde Keep Heroic (which is a pretty easy instance if people listen to the correct strategies).

Your Defense will shoot for the sky when you start to pick up higher level rings/necklace.. I think I had over 570 at one point so you can start to stack stamina in favour of defense.

Mozen is right about King Ymiron though. His BANE cast is bloody awful if your dps don't take notice. We had a rather impatient rogue with us who kept hitting him during bane cast... and I was the one who took the retaliation from it. I think we wiped 4 times on the King until the rogue got kicked and one of the other players guildie fury warriors helped us kill him....

This was a month ago..

Still no RSOC for me...
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