Remove Advertisements

How not to do Heigan

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, guillex

Postby Wolvar » Wed Feb 18, 2009 3:45 pm

My original response assumed you were going to tank HIM on the platform. Subjecting your casters to 300% debuff is worth it if you are primarily melee because you can give them his back the whole time, not move and increase their dps.

If the plan is to use his large hitbox to keep him out on the floor, (Still not sure this is even possible since the change...) then yer gonna keep your melee in his face the entire fight and gimp their dps.

So I guess this might work for a ranged heavy raid makeup, otherwise yer gimping melee dps for no reason other than a lazy MT.
Image
Wolvar
 
Posts: 533
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:52 am

Re: How not to do Heigan

Postby fuzzygeek » Wed Feb 18, 2009 3:58 pm

Isetnefret wrote:They insist that the best way is to have everyone on the platform during phase 1 (slow dance).


The site you linked seems to have the entire raid on the platform, correct?

This was fixed in 3.0.8, reportedly.

http://www.worldofraids.com/forums/show ... hp?t=20955

But by all means, let them try it. Outdated information on the internet is outdated.
Image
User avatar
fuzzygeek
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 5085
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:58 pm

Outdated

Postby Nidaknat » Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:45 pm

As far as I know you can no longer do that. There were two ways before you could stand in one corner while the dps stood in the other and it worked fine. Since they redid the range we have not been able to duplicate it. Second you could used to stand in the corner and avoid dancing all together but they have also fixed that. So pretty much your options are to learn the dance. It is really not that hard and after one or two wipes usually everyone with half of a brain has the dance down. If they don't remove them and find people with the coordination needed to do it because you will need those people in later fights and instances.

Nida
Nida
Nidaknat
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:17 pm

Postby Kelaan » Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:40 pm

Kynes wrote:"If we tank him on the platform, all our healers and casters are subject to a 300% casting speed debuff, as well as giving the entire raid the disease.

You can kill Heigan this way. But it takes ages longer. It is a lot more work than required. It sets a poor precident.


While I agree that the dance is NOT hard at all, our guild uses the "easy" phase1 tactic of everyone on the platform.

- I position the boss in one corner, on the ramped portion... almost on the floor, even.
- Casters stand on the other side.
- Disease seems to be still only a melee thing
- casters seem not to complain about the aura, so I /think/ we still can get enough range.

We seem to kill him in one less fast dance phase than the "proper" way, and therefore it seems faster and easier to do it this way. Why should we NOT do it? (that said, I'd love for people not to die on the fast dance... sigh.)
User avatar
Kelaan
 
Posts: 4036
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:01 pm

Postby Kelaan » Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:45 pm

Wolvar wrote:If the plan is to use his large hitbox to keep him out on the floor, (Still not sure this is even possible since the change...) then yer gonna keep your melee in his face the entire fight and gimp their dps.


If melee DPS can damage him from the front for longer than they can while dancing, a 10-15% loss in damage from parries (is it even that much, with expertise?) is made up for by the extra time dealing damage. Our melee seem unperturbed by it. The only problem is (AFAIK) the caster aura. Our casters might be excessively dot / hot-heavy, so they might not care as much, but I've not heard complaints when they stand at the opposite corner. This is not to say they are unaffected, merely to say that I haven't heard anyone complain that it's a problem.

Part of our doing it this way is inertia: we got our second and third kills this way, and now the raid leader likes it better.
User avatar
Kelaan
 
Posts: 4036
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:01 pm

Postby Malthrax » Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:05 am

I don't understand why people have to make this fight harder than it needs to be.

If you have a melee heavy group, you tank him on the platform under the lamp, during phase 1. Ranged and healers "dance".

If you have a ranged heavy group, you tank him on the dance floor in phase 1. Just walk backwards, kiting the boss from zone to zone. Ranged and heals stand on the platform, melee DPSes the boss from the sides.

This is not difficult to do.

I fail to see the necessity of attempting to 'game the game'. If someone doesn't have the situational awareness or the response time to successfully complete this encounter - replace them.
User avatar
Malthrax
 
Posts: 725
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:23 am

Postby Panzerdin » Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:12 am

If a guide is what's misleading them, why not point them at my notes? It contains much that is apocryphal, or at least wildly inaccurate, but scores over this one in that it says what you want it to say.
User avatar
Panzerdin
 
Posts: 5504
Joined: Sat May 24, 2008 2:51 pm
Location: On a picket line, protesting against the changes to Maintankadin

Postby Wolvar » Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:47 am

Kelaan wrote:
If melee DPS can damage him from the front for longer than they can while dancing, a 10-15% loss in damage from parries (is it even that much, with expertise?) is made up for by the extra time dealing damage. Our melee seem unperturbed by it. The only problem is (AFAIK) the caster aura. Our casters might be excessively dot / hot-heavy, so they might not care as much, but I've not heard complaints when they stand at the opposite corner. This is not to say they are unaffected, merely to say that I haven't heard anyone complain that it's a problem.

Part of our doing it this way is inertia: we got our second and third kills this way, and now the raid leader likes it better.


Why would they have more time dealing damage from the platform versus dancing? At least while dancing they get some back time... and it's not like there is any point during dancing where they *can't* do dps.
Image
Wolvar
 
Posts: 533
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:52 am

Postby Annadin » Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:59 am

Panzerdin wrote:It contains much that is apocryphal, or at least wildly inaccurate, but scores over this one in that it says what you want it to say


and has the words "Don't Panic" in large, friendly letters on the cover?


wikipedia is the new HHG :)
Wittysigplaceholdertext.txt

Main: Annadin, Paladin
Spare Tankadin: Panadoll, Paladin
Other Alts: Jaybee, Priest - Samiam, Rogue - Shamiam, Shaman
Guild: Cotton Candy of Shadowsong Europe
Youtube: Channel
Annadin
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:17 am
Location: SE UK

Postby Kynes » Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:39 am

Kelaan wrote:
Kynes wrote:"If we tank him on the platform, all our healers and casters are subject to a 300% casting speed debuff, as well as giving the entire raid the disease.

You can kill Heigan this way. But it takes ages longer. It is a lot more work than required. It sets a poor precident.


While I agree that the dance is NOT hard at all, our guild uses the "easy" phase1 tactic of everyone on the platform.

- I position the boss in one corner, on the ramped portion... almost on the floor, even.
- Casters stand on the other side.
- Disease seems to be still only a melee thing
- casters seem not to complain about the aura, so I /think/ we still can get enough range.

We seem to kill him in one less fast dance phase than the "proper" way, and therefore it seems faster and easier to do it this way. Why should we NOT do it? (that said, I'd love for people not to die on the fast dance... sigh.)


The major point I'm trying to get across is that from this point on, the game is going to get harder. And this fight is one of the easiest in the game. Sure, you can do it this way. But was it intended? I doubt it. "Skipping" the mechanic of this fight just undermines your guild's eventual progression.

Just my 2 cents.
Kynes of the Nightfall - Darkspear
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... ar&n=Kynes

Eversteel used to tank uphill both ways in the snow.
User avatar
Kynes
 
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:17 am

Postby Kelaan » Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:54 am

Wolvar wrote:Why would they have more time dealing damage from the platform versus dancing? At least while dancing they get some back time... and it's not like there is any point during dancing where they *can't* do dps.


While dancing, the position of the boss is frequently moving; staying in room to connect is harder. Moreover, people have to think about Not Dying, whereas when standing in a "safe" spot, they can focus all-out on damage. We usually blow a heroism right off the bat and get quite a bit of damage in before phase 2.

Kynes wrote:From this point on, the game is going to get harder. And this fight is one of the easiest in the game.... "Skipping" the mechanic of this fight just undermines your guild's eventual progression.

Quite possibly. We still need to do the fast dance, it you could arguably say that, since we're not in the rhythm of dancing already, it makes the dance part /harder/. (I'm not sure how much harder, it sure doesn't seem hard to me.) We have some people who have some bad latency, and I think doing it this way helps ensure that they can survive longer, I guess. I don't know.

I don't think that skipping this hurts our progression, in itself, but rather is just an indicator that some of our members will still be challenged later on. When it's brain-deficiency, that's a bad thing, but if it's hardware or latency related, there's not much we can do about it. So, we do the fight in a way which is more friendly to some of our DPS.
User avatar
Kelaan
 
Posts: 4036
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:01 pm

Postby Spectrum » Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:14 pm

We usually have melee dance in 10s because we're lighter on melee due to KT mechanics (stupid frost blast).

We try to blow a heroism right at the start so we can get max DPS time in while everyone is up.

We dance. Some people die during the double-time usually because we have at least one new person each week.

Dancing during phase 1 isn't exactly hard and our two healers always have extra time to heal any DPS that does get hit.

I'd suggest you recommend trying it both ways, particularly if one way wipes you (though not likely), and then compare.
Spectrum
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 1488
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:40 pm
Location: Silvermoon, Alliance

Postby Wolvar » Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:28 pm

While dancing, the position of the boss is frequently moving; staying in room to connect is harder.


The boss has a hitbox almost the size of sapphiron, there is not time during the dance that melee is not blowing the hell out of him. If the MT is good, he can also get dps at the boss' back the entire dance.
Image
Wolvar
 
Posts: 533
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:52 am

Postby Panzerdin » Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:08 pm

Annadin wrote:
Panzerdin wrote:It contains much that is apocryphal, or at least wildly inaccurate, but scores over this one in that it says what you want it to say


and has the words "Don't Panic" in large, friendly letters on the cover?


wikipedia is the new HHG :)


I'm now going to go and edit it so that it does. The guide, that is, not Wikipedia.
User avatar
Panzerdin
 
Posts: 5504
Joined: Sat May 24, 2008 2:51 pm
Location: On a picket line, protesting against the changes to Maintankadin

Postby majiben » Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:15 pm

Punish them by using babyspice on the boss.
Amirya wrote:some bizarre lovechild of Hawking, Einstein, and Theck
User avatar
majiben
Moderator
 
Posts: 6999
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:37 pm
Location: Retired

PreviousNext

Return to T7: Naxx / Maly / Sarth / Archavon

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there are 0 users online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 0 guests (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests