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0/58/13 vs 5/60/6

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Postby Wolvar » Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:17 pm

Either works for current content. Who knows what will happen in 3.1. Trying to pick a spec for unknown content and/or talent/class changes is kinda silly.
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Postby Jonesy » Thu Feb 05, 2009 4:31 am

Based on the history of the game, if you never, ever want to respec, 15% runspeed is better than Kings and SotP, assuming you have a Ret paladin available.
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Postby Dread » Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:35 pm

I've been 58/13 pretty much since the day I started raiding, but I have to say I'm beginning to lean toward a respec to 5/60/6. I love PoJ, but we often have an Unholy DK and a Ret Pally in our raids and honestly, the Tuskarr's enchant isn't exactly a huge loss of Stam over the pure Stamina enchant. And I rarely do heroics on my Pally anymore since there's nothing I need from badges for any offspecs and the time could be better spent working on gearing up my Resto Druid.

Currently, I'm often picked for an encounter to be the MT simply because I'm almost always the best at threat generation among 2 Prot Warriors and a DK tank. I've noticed the closing gap between threat generation from tanks and from dps due to the uneven scaling gear provides and I get worried with a new set of upgrades around the corner. Yes, my threat will improve, but I really doubt it will scale as well as our dpser's threat. With that in mind, I'm highly considering a respec to maximize my threat generation. Hell, I can always go back if I dislike it that much. :P
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Postby Shields » Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:06 am

Dread wrote:I've been 58/13 pretty much since the day I started raiding, but I have to say I'm beginning to lean toward a respec to 5/60/6. I love PoJ, but we often have an Unholy DK and a Ret Pally in our raids and honestly, the Tuskarr's enchant isn't exactly a huge loss of Stam over the pure Stamina enchant. And I rarely do heroics on my Pally anymore since there's nothing I need from badges for any offspecs and the time could be better spent working on gearing up my Resto Druid.

Currently, I'm often picked for an encounter to be the MT simply because I'm almost always the best at threat generation among 2 Prot Warriors and a DK tank. I've noticed the closing gap between threat generation from tanks and from dps due to the uneven scaling gear provides and I get worried with a new set of upgrades around the corner. Yes, my threat will improve, but I really doubt it will scale as well as our dpser's threat. With that in mind, I'm highly considering a respec to maximize my threat generation. Hell, I can always go back if I dislike it that much. :P


I am currently a 58/13 buildas well and really enjoy it. However, I too have been considering a change of spec, specifically putting 5 points into holy. My DPS has slowly been creeping up, though I've found that having a high BV gear set helps tremendously. The loss in avoidance isn't really too much.

I just dislike the idea of putting those 5 points into holy, though I may have extra points to play with after 3.1
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Postby Lauranna-Skullcrusher » Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:09 am

In 3.1

Blessing of Kings – this spell is now a base ability trainable by all paladins.
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Postby Jutul » Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:11 am

Dread wrote:I've been 58/13 pretty much since the day I started raiding, but I have to say I'm beginning to lean toward a respec to 5/60/6. I love PoJ, but we often have an Unholy DK and a Ret Pally in our raids and honestly, the Tuskarr's enchant isn't exactly a huge loss of Stam over the pure Stamina enchant. And I rarely do heroics on my Pally anymore since there's nothing I need from badges for any offspecs and the time could be better spent working on gearing up my Resto Druid.

Currently, I'm often picked for an encounter to be the MT simply because I'm almost always the best at threat generation among 2 Prot Warriors and a DK tank. I've noticed the closing gap between threat generation from tanks and from dps due to the uneven scaling gear provides and I get worried with a new set of upgrades around the corner. Yes, my threat will improve, but I really doubt it will scale as well as our dpser's threat. With that in mind, I'm highly considering a respec to maximize my threat generation. Hell, I can always go back if I dislike it that much. :P


You totally answered two of my concerns, the boots enchant, and the loss of some stamina as well as the closing gap of threat. My fear is that DKs and Warriors will be catching up to me. Right now, I have had no problems with threat with the dps and healers I normally run with. I can hold pretty much anything just fine if I react in a reasonable amount of time. However some of the other tanks that I interact with seem to be going out of their way to try to prove that they are better then pally tanks. I want to make sure I stay ahead of the game, since I feel it is not correct that a lesser geared, less survivable tank should be put into certain situations when there are better options and better geared and survivable tanks (who are just as good if not better at the spec) are in the group, but are being forced to use ret gear to do dps in their prot spec talent tree for some raids.

Yes with 3.1 they are looking at making it a base talent, but to what extent, do we still need talent points to get the full 10% benefit or not, plus who knows where the talent trees will end up goign with soem modifications they might do. Yeah I like to be flexible but at the same time, I like a spec that meets a certain goal, best survivability with the highest TPS possible.
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Postby Frickit » Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:37 am

Tuskarr's is a decent amount of speed, if your worried about not noticing it...Its been a while since I experienced the 15%from PoJ but the enchant has me pretty much getting ahead of everyone, even if I was lagging behind. It serves the purpose of being faster than the average person.
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Postby Duraz0rz » Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:20 pm

I just recently switched to Tuskarr's on my boots. I figure the loss of ~6 stam is worth the 8% increase in run speed.
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Postby Playdoh » Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:14 am

I think the choice between 5/60/6 and 58/13 is summed up by what other members do your raids bring?

If ret pally/unholy dk go with 5/60/6 - oh and DG is actually pretty fun.

If no ret pally or unholy dk i might lean more towards the 58/13 spec.

The 5/60/6 spec works for me.

I do not have mana issues, unless i forget to watch my mana and concecrate too often.

When I am called to dps, my dps rotation could use alot of work in protection spec. It just feels empty compared to the maintank/OT rotation where holy shield and concecrate can be added to the rotation without thinking about it.

For dps situations my main abilities are
judge/HoTR/Shor
concecrate when i have mana
but holy shield doesn't have to be used
exorcism and holy wrath are pretty mana intensive but I use them when they are available and when I have mana.

Should i be doing HoTr Judge and then shor to take advantage of my libram then Hotr and wait for judge? Or should I be doing something different?
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Postby Kynes » Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:16 am

Ugh ignore this post, I quoted something from page 1 thinking it was page 3.
Kynes of the Nightfall - Darkspear
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... ar&n=Kynes

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Postby Frickit » Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:38 am

Diocaska wrote:If you have a reliable Unholy DK then you don't gain anything from persuit of justice.

If you want persuit for solo play, or for 5 mans/heroics, or even 10 mans, then go ahead, but if you've got a reliable Unholy DK, then personally I back 5/60/6.


sorry for basic question im at work and im just thinking about trying something different. would you reccomend not using tuskarrs vitality with an unholy dk in every raid? I also do not have a ret pally anymore.

So Im thinking of keeping 5/60/6 but switching to 22 stam on boots. Or, I can take 58/13 for the crit. either way I get more stam but I reaaallly hate being slow. I ask because we have a dk rl and Im pretty sure I can still get ahead of people just with my boot enchant. could be my imagination though.
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Postby Conaan! » Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:55 am

Frickit wrote:
Diocaska wrote:If you have a reliable Unholy DK then you don't gain anything from persuit of justice.

If you want persuit for solo play, or for 5 mans/heroics, or even 10 mans, then go ahead, but if you've got a reliable Unholy DK, then personally I back 5/60/6.


sorry for basic question im at work and im just thinking about trying something different. would you reccomend not using tuskarrs vitality with an unholy dk in every raid? I also do not have a ret pally anymore.

So Im thinking of keeping 5/60/6 but switching to 22 stam on boots. Or, I can take 58/13 for the crit. either way I get more stam but I reaaallly hate being slow. I ask because we have a dk rl and Im pretty sure I can still get ahead of people just with my boot enchant. could be my imagination though.


truly, go PoJ spec and use 22 stam to boots, the threat loss isnt gonna kill you, the only place you need it is in maly 25 and sarth 3D, try PoJ spec for a while to see how you like it, if you can deal with the speed increase only in raids then keep your spec

either way, go 22 stam to boots
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