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[25](-) and (+) group positions on Thaddius

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, guillex

Postby inthedrops » Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:09 am

fuzzygeek wrote:
amh wrote:Image


It's faster if you just run through the boss, instead of running around the outside.

Also tanking at an angle for the sake of a few melee is unnecessary.


It's probably safer too because the tank with agro running through the boss causes less mob positioning issues. Usually tanks know to run through the boss but that diagram above suggests they aren't.

One other tip which mostly applies to the melee. After each polarity change cast, make sure the melee always readjusts itself to max range. Often Thaddius gets moved forward/backward a bit and if melee who didn't have their polarity stand in the exact same spot then they might end up being too close to the people on the other side of thaddius.
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Postby Belloc » Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:13 am

The reason you don't want to rotate around him is simple: The first possible tick of damage occurs 5 seconds after polarity shift lands. If it's taking you longer than that, then you're the kind of person that guilds hate bringing to raids.

It's easier to run straight through him. It's faster to run straight through him. You lose less DPS by running straight through him. Seriously, watch your debuff count down. You'll notice that the charges update every 5 seconds. That's when it ticks. No one will give or take damage from it until 5 seconds after the cast finishes.

Don't rotate, please.
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Postby mazater » Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:07 am

----<Boss>++++

Move from the right, just like you'd be driving a car.
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Postby Wolvar » Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:32 am

Belloc wrote:Don't rotate, please.




This works perfectly fine for guilds that handpick their raid slots based on skill and class. I think that most guilds however, take who wants to come, or who signs up first and can get a mix of skill levels and classes. So for the majority of guilds out there, rotate probably works best.
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Postby Pallypete » Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:29 pm

I also wouldn't worry too much about parry-hasting on this boss. He doesn't hit very hard, and raid-wide damage is pretty low other than the occasional chainlightning, so you'll have plenty of healers with nothing to do but heal the MT (or to start DPSing if they know what they're doin. :P)
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Postby amh » Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:47 pm

Belloc wrote:Don't rotate, please.


It works, and it leaves a lot of room for error. What's the problem?
I used to play a paladin.
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Postby Belloc » Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:50 pm

Wolvar wrote:
Belloc wrote:Don't rotate, please.




This works perfectly fine for guilds that handpick their raid slots based on skill and class. I think that most guilds however, take who wants to come, or who signs up first and can get a mix of skill levels and classes. So for the majority of guilds out there, rotate probably works best.

I honestly don't see how that could be. If people are that bad, they're the ones littering the floor. Rotating is harder, slower, and less efficient. Anyone capable of rotating on the fight is capable of running through the boss.
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Postby avatar8481 » Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:54 pm

Our guild had a hard time on Thaddius last night, and ended up not getting him down (too many deaths and some gimp dps), but I worked up this spreadsheet to think through some of these issues, let me know if you think this makes sense/confirm reasonable barometers for dps-check on this fight:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=puB--X4Trc0-7ldxbZZWPeA&hl=en
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Postby fuzzygeek » Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:59 pm

Belloc wrote:I honestly don't see how that could be. If people are that bad, they're the ones littering the floor. Rotating is harder, slower, and less efficient. Anyone capable of rotating on the fight is capable of running through the boss.


The argument is that since people are rotating around the outside, even if they're a bit slow, they will never be close enough to someone of the opposite polarity to trigger a blast.

It's certainly slower and less efficient, but it leaves a much larger margin of error. People slow to move running through the raid will die, and probably take people with them. People slow to move rotating around the outside probably won't die, and probably won't kill the raid while they move.
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Postby Makaijin » Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:15 pm

Pallypete wrote:I also wouldn't worry too much about parry-hasting on this boss. He doesn't hit very hard, and raid-wide damage is pretty low other than the occasional chainlightning, so you'll have plenty of healers with nothing to do but heal the MT (or to start DPSing if they know what they're doin. :P)


Our RL asked me to tank him not because of fear of parry gibs, like you said he doesn't hit very hard at all. It was more for the melee dps to squeeze more dps by attacking him on his side as to remove parries from the attack table thsu improving dps.

It's not really needed now, but back then we were bourderline on his hard enrage timer so it did matter more.
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Postby Lore » Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:02 pm

Thing is, rotating doesn't really do anything. You still hit the people who didn't have to move, and you still hit the people who moved quicker than you did. You wouldn't hit the other slow people either way, so what exactly does it resolve?

Also, we have a song:

Negative left, and Positive right
that's how you win, the Thaddius fight!
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Postby fuzzygeek » Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:09 pm

Lore wrote:Thing is, rotating doesn't really do anything. You still hit the people who didn't have to move, and you still hit the people who moved quicker than you did. You wouldn't hit the other slow people either way, so what exactly does it resolve?

Also, we have a song:

Negative left, and Positive right
that's how you win, the Thaddius fight!


Awesome song is awesome.

Also, if you completely fail to move, yes, you'll detonate. If you move too slowly, you'll detonate. But if you're off to the side at the 5 second mark instead of in the middle of the raid, you won't detonate.

That's the theory, anyway. I still think it's faster to run through and not be slow, but that's hard for some people.
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Postby Wolvar » Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:36 pm

A circle rotation doesn't really help if only one person is slow. It helps when multiple people are slow. Instead of converging in the center and killing each other, they are on the sides far from each other.

Obviously for a raid that knows the fight, straight across is the most efficient, but for a raid that is learning the fight, where you may have 6 or 8 people that have never seen it, the rotation gives you a bit of a buffer.
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Postby Avengeance » Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:47 pm

I dont see why its difficult for people to watch their debuff slot for 3 seconds to see if it changed or not - WoW PvE is _that_ difficult?

We also use running straight through tactic btw. I think for new attempts, you are better off teaching people how to read their debuffs than making a tactic based around their stupidity. If they dont learn it after 2 tries, get some new members with eyes
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Postby Wolvar » Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:49 pm

Yeah, slight tangent but the whole fluidity of guildtags is something I really don't like about WoW. We've had the same guildmembers for a decade, we aren't gonna get rid of them just because they have trouble with a fight mechanic. :p
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