To BoK or not to BoK

[Reesescup]

I have noticed while tanking that I almost never use Blessing of Kings unless it is placed on me. I normally use BoS and if I am OT I put that on the MT also. I rarely ever put Kings on any class in a raid, as the Ret pallies take care of it.

So on to my question, BoK takes up 5 talent points that I could use in such a better way I believe. Would it be wrong as a prot pally to move them out of there and have Ret take care of Kings?

The only Kings I really use is the minor which is only one talent point.

I understand it is my toon and can do what I want but would I be hurting a raid, or 5 man H by moving the points?

[Snake-Aes]

I have noticed while tanking that I almost never use Blessing of Kings unless it is placed on me. I normally use BoS and if I am OT I put that on the MT also. I rarely ever put Kings on any class in a raid, as the Ret pallies take care of it.

So on to my question, BoK takes up 5 talent points that I could use in such a better way I believe. Would it be wrong as a prot pally to move them out of there and have Ret take care of Kings?

The only Kings I really use is the minor which is only one talent point.

I understand it is my toon and can do what I want but would I be hurting a raid, or 5 man H by moving the points?

If someone else is providing kings, then yeah it's totally fine to drop it from your spec.

[Elsie]

Basically: You can only drop kings without hurting a raid if you can assure 2 others with kings. Otherwise you need kings so your holy/ret paladin can put up improved might/wisdom without gimping you out of kings. You would obviously be gimping any 5-man where there's a warrior or 1 other paladin around, but 5-mans are too easy to care. 10 man raids would be where the problem will most likely occur.

It's easier to drop JotJ than kings to me, since every DK and their mother has improved icy touch and OT warrior/druids will have their slow debuff. That's a lot more slot potential for -20% attack speed than kings.

[uke]

The times I've spec'd prot in WotLK, I had ample points to put into (full) kings without sacrificing something else I really wanted.

The only way I could see not having enough points for kings is if you either go down the ret tree for full Conviction (which is not nearly as good as kings), or you grab the PVP/situational talents in the prot tree like stoicism, improved HoJ, Divine Guardian, etc (which are also not as good as kings)

ONLY points in the holy tree should be in seals of the pure, if you want it. anything beyond that in holy and 'you're doing it wrong'

In short: if someone else has kings, than feel free to skip it. Don't bother with just one point in it, as it's nearly useless. All or nothing.

However, if no one else can bring it, grab it over the non-essential talents elsewhere, as you'll have ample points for it if you don't grab marginally useful talents.

Marginally useful talents (IMO) include:
Improved HoJ
Divine Guardian (situational if you act as an offtank)
Stoicism (useless outside of PVP)
Divine Favor (PVP again)
Conviction
Pursuit of Justice
2/2 Improved Judgement over 1/2
Heart of the Crusader

All of the above talents are either useless for tanking, or situational given party makeup. However, none of them are worth putting points into over kings if no one else has it.

[Spectrum]

Kings is more EH than Sanctuary, thus you should always have it up when you need EH (basically any boss fight). If you can guarantee kings from another source at the times you'd want to maximize EH, then go ahead and drop it. Otherwise it's not a bad investment for 10% stamina/agility/strength.

[Noradin]

Kings is more EH than Sanctuary, thus you should always have it up when you need EH (basically any boss fight). If you can guarantee kings from another source at the times you'd want to maximize EH, then go ahead and drop it. Otherwise it's not a bad investment for 10% stamina/agility/strength.

The problem is: If you are always available and known for having kings others tend to spec out of it leaving you with not kings or no sanc whereas you would have both it you never hat kings yourselfes xD

Since every paladins psec has a blessing they can improve/spec into and can reach kings whoever gets it is most likely to be tho one not getting the buff or being left out on his own buff improvements.

[Reesescup]

It was an idea I had been kicking around. After playing with talent calculators and reading up more on Pally's and fights. It seems as though (as stated above) I would have to be positive that I would be out there with another pally at all times.

I also did not think about how I would gimp a 10 man.

Thanks for the input and I am glad I was using the talent calc instead on gold.

[Galannor]

I've always had it and dropped it since i've been back in raids because we have 2 regular rets giving it.

However, I miss it a lot in heroics, not for me but for the others. I'm thinking of switching back if divine guardian doesnt satisfy me in the long run. Especially since one of the rets has it too.

[Deet]

I think it's one of the best buffs in the game so I keep it. I don't switch from sanctuary to it much these days, but when I do I certainly think it's made a difference worthy of the 5 points I've put into it. I also don't necessarily have a ret paladin around even half the time and wouldn't normally ask holy paladins to get it so for me it's a good investment.

[Nicki]

For a prot paladin you actually gain very little...

Aslong as you have a ret and holy in each raid or 2 holy its ok BUT you should offer the holy paladin the choice to drop kings first because they gain 3% crit.

[Fayia]

Alas a moot point. BoK will be trainable by every Paladin soon...

[Daddytank]

Im still yet to understand why any prot pally would spec for kings?

Kings is not what you should be buffing yourself with. buff yourself with BoS. if your the only pally in your guild with it then you need to tell the other pallies to get it. Ret is the most obvious choice as they lose the least from it. but if it comes to the trade off of your healer having 3% less crit o something vs the MT having 10% extra hp. i would be getting your mage to port to org so your holy pally can go respec.

Any tankadin i speak to i simply ask him why he would tank without kings. and then they go respec lol.

Its just not viable as prot.

[Mordinm]

Im still yet to understand why any prot pally would spec for kings?

Kings is not what you should be buffing yourself with. buff yourself with BoS. if your the only pally in your guild with it then you need to tell the other pallies to get it. Ret is the most obvious choice as they lose the least from it. but if it comes to the trade off of your healer having 3% less crit o something vs the MT having 10% extra hp. i would be getting your mage to port to org so your holy pally can go respec.

Any tankadin i speak to i simply ask him why he would tank without kings. and then they go respec lol.

Its just not viable as prot.

Well the thing is you don't really lose anything terribly important to get it. If 10% Stam matters to you in 10 man raids or 5 mans get kings. If you're 25 mans are chronically short on pallies get Kings. Don't expect a holy pally to gimp his spec so you can get what? Reckoning? It's nice to not have to pick up Kings but you're not doing without any major tanking talents to get it.

[masterpoobaa]

I for one am glad BoK is becomming a baseline trainable tallent.
Too many times ive run with ret pallies who urgently wisper
"kingz plz man!!!" yet cant be assed spending 5 points out of their precious ret tree to give a big boost to party/raid functionallity.
*grumble*

[Khayne]

I for one am glad BoK is becomming a baseline trainable tallent.
Too many times ive run with ret pallies who urgently wisper
"kingz plz man!!!" yet cant be assed spending 5 points out of their precious ret PVP spec to give a big boost to party/raid functionallity.
*grumble*

Fixt, rets didn't lose a single pve talent to get it.

If i were you, i'd look up at what else they skipped (Needed imp. hoj. instead of some dps talent?)