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[10/25] Sartharion +3 Fire Resist Theroycrafting...

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Postby kram » Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:38 pm

Grizwold wrote:Got the combat logs or WWSes? those breaths should be hitting for ~ 40-45k without FR or cooldowns. and if hes only at 29k life and living something odd is happening, or he is getting VERY lucky with partial resists at low FR values. I am at 27k after the debuff in 418FR and was still getting 1 shot every now and then (35K hits)


Unfortunately we didnt have anyone turn a combat log on, maybe Ill convince the group to attempt to not use cooldowns this week but its not likely as most people just want to get in and out of that place asap. Maybe we will bring the trap priest that fails to use GS 50% of the time...
The only resist he had at the time was MotW and I really doubt the odds of that saving him from around 5 full breaths over the course of two days.
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Postby Grizwold » Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:43 pm

Just checking and asking, as these 2 posts seem to be at odds...

kram wrote:I've seen our warrior mt(stam gear, ~29k after debuff) on os10 take a quite few full breaths (shadron+vesperon+acolytes) without cds or pw:s over the past two weeks without dieing.


kram wrote:
Grizwold wrote:Got the combat logs or WWSes? those breaths should be hitting for ~ 40-45k without FR or cooldowns. and if hes only at 29k life and living something odd is happening, or he is getting VERY lucky with partial resists at low FR values. I am at 27k after the debuff in 418FR and was still getting 1 shot every now and then (35K hits)


Unfortunately we didnt have anyone turn a combat log on, maybe Ill convince the group to attempt to not use cooldowns this week but its not likely as most people just want to get in and out of that place asap. Maybe we will bring the trap priest that fails to use GS 50% of the time...
The only resist he had at the time was MotW and I really doubt the odds of that saving him from around 5 full breaths over the course of two days.


Or were you saying he IS using fire resist and that it supports this method?
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Postby kram » Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:31 pm

We dont use FR gear, the only resist he had was from imp motw. Ill try to remember to log our next kill and see if the group is up for trying it with out cooldowns intentionally.
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Postby Grizwold » Thu Feb 05, 2009 4:29 pm

I've seen our warrior mt(stam gear, ~29k after debuff) on os10 take a quite few full breaths (shadron+vesperon+acolytes) without cds or pw:s over the past two weeks without dieing.

The only resist he had at the time was MotW and I really doubt the odds of that saving him from around 5 full breaths over the course of two days.


Sorry I'm still unclear. That first post makes it seem like hes surviving without cooldowns, but the second one makes it seem like he isnt. Just wanted to get a clarification on that.
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Postby kram » Thu Feb 05, 2009 4:34 pm

Grizwold wrote:
I've seen our warrior mt(stam gear, ~29k after debuff) on os10 take a quite few full breaths (shadron+vesperon+acolytes) without cds or pw:s over the past two weeks without dieing.

The only resist he had at the time was MotW and I really doubt the odds of that saving him from around 5 full breaths over the course of two days.


Sorry I'm still unclear. That first post makes it seem like hes surviving without cooldowns, but the second one makes it seem like he isnt. Just wanted to get a clarification on that.


Full breaths were going off through out the night, we intended to use cooldowns but the priest didnt. The warrior was surviving the full breaths in his normal stamina set and the only FR he had at the time was whatever amount improved MotW provided.

The second quote was me saying its highly unlikely we got lucky 5+ times between a couple of days and the tank resisted enough with only FR from MotW allowing him to survive the breath. (although it he did survive)
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Postby Avengeance » Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:39 pm

I have been tanking sartharion 10+3 with 285 FR buffed, and results are quite good. I use 2 pieces of lvl 70 FR gear (gloves + boots), with a WOTLK tank cloak enchanted with 20 FR. I also use the flask that gives +50 to all resistance, + FR aura.

http://wowwebstats.com/v22gklc6apgra?s= ... +Breath%22

Here are some of the combat log messages on breath dmg.

We havent killled it yet, best try was vesperon on 25% then I died to melee damage :P. We run a 3 tank 2 healer setup with and elesham to act as a 3rd healer when needed.

So far I am able to survive on my own during the time when Shadron + Shadron add is up. When Vesperon add spawns - it is kinda hope for the best if you are relying on the resists, but what I do is when the add spawns, on the first breath I use bubblewall, and if 2nd breath comes before bubblewall runs out its all good, if it comes later, I use a fire protection pot, then after that I use combination of Repelling charge + nightmare seed and usually shadron dies then - but also s ometimes u wont survive with trinket combo as the breath can hit 30k post-resist (also dependent on if you have a power word shield up). But you can also call out cooldowns from a priest (guardian spirit or in my case, a disc priest's pain suppression), followed by Hand of Sac if shadron is STILL not dead.

Conclusion: im quite happy with my 285 FR set - i actually got a set for 425 FR, but it nerfs my tanking stats too muh (lose another 4k hp and some avoidance) which makes surviving melee hits very difficult).

Edit: More combat logs on breath dmg from second night:
http://wowwebstats.com/5kepoun4ynwq5?s= ... +Breath%22
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Postby Avengeance » Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:44 pm

Did sartharion 25+3 tonight (second time we killed it, first time we had DK MT, but tonight he wasnt there so I MTed him). Again i used 285 buffed FR. And the combat log for breath dmg is as follow:

http://wowwebstats.com/bwummtaofndqi?s= ... +breath%22

As usual I dont use any CDs until all 3 fire debuffs are up, then I shieldwall first (most of the time it eats 2 breaths), use trinket + fire protection pot second, and usually shadron is dead by then, if not, I call out for Guardian Spirit or sacrifice or Pain suppression.

At this point, me and one of the warrior add tanks switch role - he taunts sartharion off me, I go tank fire elementals (its a joke btw if you have FR, they hit like nothing). So FR strategy does actually work - it prevents MT jibs most of the time - however you DO get high breaths if you are unlucky, i think out of all night, i once got hit by 40k flame breath and once 30k (unlucky shields from priests and unlucky resists). However it was also a dps issue coz shadron wasnt dying fast enough, but I can say survival rate is pretty high.
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Postby Loras » Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:25 pm

How are you dealing with adds and portals though? Do you enter portals to kill acolytes or do you just nuke-fest the 3 drakes?
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Postby Avengeance » Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:27 pm

in 25 men: we send a portal team of melee + 1 healer into the portal after we killed shadron, to remove shadrons buff on sartharion and twiligh ttorment from vesperons' add. Any plate can tank the add inside, we used a DPS war, while we have 3 tanks outside, one on adds, one on sarth and one on Vesperon. We always take portals from then on to remove twilight torment.

Same thing in 10 men, except we use our add tank (we run full caster group), and the drake tank will tank adds in normal realm until the portal tank comes back out.
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Postby Fridmarr » Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:39 pm

Avengeance wrote:Did sartharion 25+3 tonight (second time we killed it, first time we had DK MT, but tonight he wasnt there so I MTed him). Again i used 285 buffed FR. And the combat log for breath dmg is as follow:

http://wowwebstats.com/bwummtaofndqi?s= ... +breath%22

As usual I dont use any CDs until all 3 fire debuffs are up, then I shieldwall first (most of the time it eats 2 breaths), use trinket + fire protection pot second, and usually shadron is dead by then, if not, I call out for Guardian Spirit or sacrifice or Pain suppression.

At this point, me and one of the warrior add tanks switch role - he taunts sartharion off me, I go tank fire elementals (its a joke btw if you have FR, they hit like nothing). So FR strategy does actually work - it prevents MT jibs most of the time - however you DO get high breaths if you are unlucky, i think out of all night, i once got hit by 40k flame breath and once 30k (unlucky shields from priests and unlucky resists). However it was also a dps issue coz shadron wasnt dying fast enough, but I can say survival rate is pretty high.


Well, on your kill if you didn't have any fire resist at all, the biggest breath you would have taken would be just over 24k. There's definitely some bigger ones on other attempts, but I'm guessing those were due to lack of CDs?
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Postby Avengeance » Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:51 pm

Actually killing try according to log i resisted 5-8ks most of the time, and the last 2-3 breaths was actually shieldwalled, and fire protection potted. When warrior took over that was the point when shadron died.

And yea there are other bigger breaths before - i think biggest one i took tonight was 40k - but dont forget sartharion's breaths have a big range too once amplified.. i think the max one hits 52k-74k before mitigration - and from experience, most of the time it hits in the lower range.
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Postby Loras » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:33 pm

Hm, about Avengeance's method - instead of using 2 old FR pieces, I was thinking of bringing a boomkin or resto with me, that's (if I am correct with maths) 75 resistance from improved MotW + 130 aura + 50 flask + 25 head + 20 cloak makes 300 FR (if the magic number is 285, then we have it) and with Icebane Threads (for some more stamina) it leaves me (according to chardev) with about 30k unbuffed health (maybe a few hundred more), 539 def (damn, will risk it) and a reasonable amount of avoidance). And provided that I'll surely resist some dmg every time with that amount of FR, I guess 1 cooldown per breath with max debuffs should keep me alive? Like, 1 breath from shield wall, 1 from a fire pot + nightmare seed (dont have repelling charge, sadly), 1 from guardian spirit from a holy priest (sadly we have 0 disciplines), 1 from hand of sacrifice from a holy pala, 1 from Divine Guardian (from the same holy pala if he chooses to lose some crit). That's 5 breaths, think it's enough time with good dpsers. What do you think?

Also, would really love a more complex strategy of this (talking all about 10-man btw) - when do you use lust, how and when do you go to portals and who do you send in, etc. I read that whelps tend to jump from plane to plane, so they need to be killed before someone enters any portal, but doesnt that waste precious seconds on drakes? Also read that Twilight Torment can be removed even after the fix, if you use another form of attack on a Lava Blaze, for example, since Sarth is immune. Can anyone confirm?
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Postby fafhrd » Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:02 am

I thought MotW resist didn't stack with Aura?

<- noob
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Postby elfjorc » Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:13 am

fafhrd wrote:I thought MotW resist didn't stack with Aura?

<- noob


Not so noob apparently, since it doesn't
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Postby Avengeance » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:31 am

Our 10 men strategy is like this (we havent killed him yet, but we got good tries with it, and it was just a tank death problem that wiped us continuously, so we adapted a version with tank switches half way):

Burn tenebron, when he dies, aoe whelps + elementals. Pop BL and burn Shadron (off healer ele shaman is now full time healing). When Shadron dies, aoe fire elementals. At this point, the fire elemental and main tank switch roles (because me with 2 piece 70 FR piece is a weaker melee tank, and I burnt all my cooldowns, so we prefer to use the add tank to take over MTing from there on since he has shieldwall and things). Now I take the portal with all the dpsers with ele sham healing inside. When you come out, burn vesperon, and take EVERY portal he spawns.

BTW, from experience, bloodlust is actually not a requirement - we had our best tries without bloodlust usually - you do have longer big fire breaths, but not by much, and BL actually kills dpsers quite fast with twilight torment up. But our best try we wiped when vesperon was on 25% because I got meleed to death by sartharion while on MT (my disc priest healer was just dodging a flamewall and didnt top me up in time from constant 9k melee hits).
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