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Hateful Strike threat requirments

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Hateful Strike threat requirments

Postby Makaijin » Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:24 pm

On the Wowwiki, it mentions that hateful strike will only attack people within melee range that is 2nd (and 3rd for 25 man) in threat. After wiping on him as OT alot of times due to healer failure, I figured that this isn't the case. I've had a many a times where i have been combat ressed and or soulstoned to rejoin the fight half way through. After the res, I obviously start with zero threat and generally as the bottom, yet when healed back up and back into melee range, I still take hateful strikes as long as I have the highest current HP.

After this we concluded that Hateful Strike attacks anybody;
1. with the highest current (absolute) HP;
2. only within melee range, even if said player is behind him;
3. never attacks the aggro holder, unless there are no other targets within melee range to choose from.

Because of this, would using a 3rd OT make things easier for the healers? So that it buys that extra little time for the first offtank to be healed to full, ready to take the next hateful? Or are we just better off assigning a single healer on raid healing duty?
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Postby Worldie » Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:34 pm

I disagree, any time our OT died and we CRd him, he'd not get any hit until all the melees were dead.
And a druid with 48k HP hardly has less than our melees.
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Postby Greddy » Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:47 am

Heroic version:
Hateful hits:

2nd and 3rd in threat, and in melee range.

Patchwerk will hit one who has the most HP at that time he does hateful.

Never hits MT (first in threat) unless (s)he is alone.

Hateful will also add threat on you, so watch your threat, you can easily overagrro him if you go all out.

Normal version:

2nd in threat, and in melee range.
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Postby djlar » Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:49 pm

I've tried it on my rogue, on heroic, he always seems to hateful strike me, even if I was like 5th on threat and had low HP, we tried him untill exhaustion.
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Postby Martie » Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:01 pm

Heh. This thread reminds me of my first time in naxx. 10man, of course.

I was slightly undergeared for the encounter, but not terribly so. My big brother (who was maintanking him) tells me "Okay, you tank him, right there, and build all the threat that you can build."

I do so, a few minutes later, he's dead, and I thought... "That was fun."

Right now, if I get to MT him, I try to see how high I can get my tps to go. I think I saw omen hit 9k tps once, and only for a second or so, but still.
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Postby Fridmarr » Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:00 pm

A couple of our melee jumped in front of our 2nd OT last time we did him. They got picked off, one by one and they definitely had less health than the OT did.
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Postby Makaijin » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:43 pm

Hmm, I'll have to start recording combat logs and do a fraps on the encounter on my next run so i can get an even more clearer picture.
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Postby Zeruvar » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:29 am

do realize its not highest hp numerically but highest hp % wise.

my observations to confirm this,

MT - never eats a HS as long as hes the main target, and theres another character to eat a HS

OT - the next highest agro on list(and 3rd if on heroic) AND highest % of HP AND in melee range
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Postby Anubisknight » Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:31 am

Zeruvar wrote:do realize its not highest hp numerically but highest hp % wise.

my observations to confirm this,

MT - never eats a HS as long as hes the main target, and theres another character to eat a HS

OT - the next highest agro on list(and 3rd if on heroic) AND highest % of HP AND in melee range


That would explain it I think. We were having trouble on our first attempt due to this too. Got him to about 10%. For our next attempt (successful one) we had the melee dps jump in and out of slime every so often.
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Postby Dianora » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:52 am

Greddy wrote:Heroic version:
Hateful hits:

2nd and 3rd in threat, and in melee range.

Patchwerk will hit one who has the most HP at that time he does hateful.

Never hits MT (first in threat) unless (s)he is alone.

Hateful will also add threat on you, so watch your threat, you can easily overagrro him if you go all out.

Normal version:

2nd in threat, and in melee range.


Small correction on never hitting the main tank. The last 2 weeks of Naxx25, we put people who have the least amount of gear on Patch. In both time, I waited until I got hit twice on hateful before going all out on my off tank role. In both case, I became the main tank after 3 seconds, and basically have to stop everything so the actual main tank can get him back, since he's now eating Hateful. So it's absolutely possible for the OT to overtake MT if the main tank's not putting enough threat.
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Postby Belloc » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:57 am

Dianora wrote:
Greddy wrote:Heroic version:
Hateful hits:

2nd and 3rd in threat, and in melee range.

Patchwerk will hit one who has the most HP at that time he does hateful.

Never hits MT (first in threat) unless (s)he is alone.

Hateful will also add threat on you, so watch your threat, you can easily overagrro him if you go all out.

Normal version:

2nd in threat, and in melee range.


Small correction on never hitting the main tank. The last 2 weeks of Naxx25, we put people who have the least amount of gear on Patch. In both time, I waited until I got hit twice on hateful before going all out on my off tank role. In both case, I became the main tank after 3 seconds, and basically have to stop everything so the actual main tank can get him back, since he's now eating Hateful. So it's absolutely possible for the OT to overtake MT if the main tank's not putting enough threat.

That's not a correction, as Patchwerk isn't hitting the MT with hatefuls. If you out-threat the main tank, you become the main tank.

And, in all honesty, you shouldn't ever be doing that. It's not hard to manage threat as a paladin. I use hand of salvation on myself at least once every time we do Patchwerk (usually within the first 5-30 seconds). I also start off slowly, not spamming my highest threat abilities on cooldown.

Your MT needs to get better at building threat and you need to get better at managing threat.
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Postby Greddy » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:01 am

Dianora wrote:
Greddy wrote:Heroic version:
Hateful hits:

2nd and 3rd in threat, and in melee range.

Patchwerk will hit one who has the most HP at that time he does hateful.

Never hits MT (first in threat) unless (s)he is alone.

Hateful will also add threat on you, so watch your threat, you can easily overagrro him if you go all out.

Normal version:

2nd in threat, and in melee range.


Small correction on never hitting the main tank. The last 2 weeks of Naxx25, we put people who have the least amount of gear on Patch. In both time, I waited until I got hit twice on hateful before going all out on my off tank role. In both case, I became the main tank after 3 seconds, and basically have to stop everything so the actual main tank can get him back, since he's now eating Hateful. So it's absolutely possible for the OT to overtake MT if the main tank's not putting enough threat.


Thats because you became the MT when you overthreat on patchwerk, by passing MT on tps threat in total. When he gets 2nd threat on list as melee, he ofc will be considered as OT, in the view of the patchwerk.

All you need to do, as OT is to use HS to block, spam SS on your self and moderatly spam ShotR on him, as his hatefull will add threat on you. (as he will hate you more, when he hatefully hits you, pun intended)
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Postby Greddy » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:08 am

djlar wrote:I've tried it on my rogue, on heroic, he always seems to hateful strike me, even if I was like 5th on threat and had low HP, we tried him untill exhaustion.


You can be 5th on the list, but you can still be 3rd or 2nd on threat melee around him, since casters/ranged can be on 3rd and 2nd on threatlist on Omen, without outdanger themself or raid. Main point is DPS melee has to be below OTs. Ranged can almost ignore threat. It is not the threat on your omen that counts, but Patchwerk's threatlist you have to go and watch for, which seems to behave for only those in melee range.
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Postby Cowadin » Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:09 pm

Zeruvar wrote:do realize its not highest hp numerically but highest hp % wise.

my observations to confirm this,

MT - never eats a HS as long as hes the main target, and theres another character to eat a HS

OT - the next highest agro on list(and 3rd if on heroic) AND highest % of HP AND in melee range


This is not correct. It isn't %HP, it is actual HP. On patchwerk yesterday I sat there for the first 15-20 seconds without eating any hatefuls, and I thought the encounter was bugged. i then realized that our other hateful tank had past me in HP since our last run, and was taking all the hatefuls (with our healers re-topping him off quickly)... so i sat at 100% for the first bit of the fight and missed out of multiple hatefuls.

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Postby Nicki » Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:37 am

http://elitistjerks.com/f15/t31964-wotlk_naxxramas/p17/

posts 408 + 409


why are we discussing tactics for a boss that are well known since vanilla WoW?

And why is there so much miss information regarding this boss I had to shout at my melee in 10 man for jumping in the slime...
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