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0/58/13 vs 5/60/6

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Postby Wolvar » Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:21 am

To answer the other FFAQ SotP is more threat than Conviction.



...still waiting on the math on that. :p

Judgements make up less than 10% of my damage. 4.x% increase on all damage seems better than a 15% increase on less than 10% of my damage.
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Postby Diocaska » Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:26 am

Ilicha wrote:http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sVZaxVA0uTteIRhoxo
There we go


Bah, I can't view due to wowhead being blocked at work. :<

Anyone able to put it into http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/cla ... lents.html and give me a link?

Will pay in cookies.
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Postby Janduin » Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:28 am

Ilicha wrote:In case you'r going for max TPS then i would go for this build. You skip Divine guardian and Judgements of the just. Neigher of them help generating threat. if anything then Judgements of the just reduce threat generated bacause you'r blockking less attacks this way. (+ does it work on raid bosses?) Ofcause you loose "improved judgement" but then you could choose 4/5 in reck'


Increasing the boss's damage output on you by 20% for more threat is a bad idea in any serious or semi-serious tanking build. If you want to block more, switch out some gear, don't gimp your spec and make yourself take 20% more damage all the time. Plus it's going to be a negligible threat improvement.
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Postby elfjorc » Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:30 am

Wolvar wrote:
To answer the other FFAQ SotP is more threat than Conviction.



...still waiting on the math on that. :p

Judgements make up less than 10% of my damage. 4.x% increase on all damage seems better than a 15% increase on less than 10% of my damage.


Seals.
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Postby Venoseth » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:01 am

15% was a little over-exaggeration on my part, but I don't get to use SoV all the time (Wisdom in some situations). Anyone have a WWS of them using SoV for an entire run post 3.0.8 (because I'm sure seals/judge is a bigger % with only 1 ShoR)?

Also, just because someone else can provide the debuff from HotC doesn't mean that I wouldn't be the only one some of the time.

Isn't the consensus on kings, take it, 'cuz it's better than not having it. Isn't HotC the same? Not as important, from a tanking perspective, but not worth discounting totally.

I guess it's just like everything else, depends on what you've got with you, and how reliably.
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Postby Diocaska » Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:20 am

19th Jan

Patchwerk 3 mins - (Lots of alts included here)
Used 30 stam food buff. No flask. No Druid buff.

http://wowwebstats.com/c5brwunvjlebw?s=22532-31292

Funny note. One healer, lol.

Edit. This seems to have been one day before patch day. Regardless, iirc I wasn't abusing the SotR bug.

Not raided Naxx since patch day I don't think, so will get a WWS if I go this week.
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Postby thenNATEgoes » Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:39 am

Diocaska wrote: Regardless, iirc I wasn't abusing the SotR bug.

Not raided Naxx since patch day I don't think, so will get a WWS if I go this week.


You either had the lower rank bounded to your action bar or you didn't.

This is the issue, too many paladins used JoL threat and Double Shield Slamming as a crutch and now it's gone.

Now most of them are concerned about their "Max TPS."
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Postby Valerius » Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:56 am

thenNATEgoes wrote:
Diocaska wrote: Regardless, iirc I wasn't abusing the SotR bug.

Not raided Naxx since patch day I don't think, so will get a WWS if I go this week.


You either had the lower rank bounded to your action bar or you didn't.

This is the issue, too many paladins used JoL threat and Double Shield Slamming as a crutch and now it's gone.

Now most of them are concerned about their "Max TPS."


Which is exactly why you really shouldn't ever take advantage of known bugs. I never used it and can still steal aggro from both the bear and warrior tanks in my guild without really trying. I stopped using JoL when I figured out that it was cause of the threat issues and only ever used the ShoR bug in in Wintergrasp when I got jumped by hordies while mining.
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Postby Dread » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:07 am

Diocaska wrote:19th Jan

Patchwerk 3 mins - (Lots of alts included here)
Used 30 stam food buff. No flask. No Druid buff.

http://wowwebstats.com/c5brwunvjlebw?s=22532-31292

Funny note. One healer, lol.

Edit. This seems to have been one day before patch day. Regardless, iirc I wasn't abusing the SotR bug.

Not raided Naxx since patch day I don't think, so will get a WWS if I go this week.


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Postby Archimeades » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:37 pm

The build you can't see is the standard 5/60/6 with no points in DG or JotJ and 4/5 in reck.
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Postby Missio » Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:52 am

It makes me sad when I see paladin's that don't have or don't have maxed out the Ardent Defender talent. Its one of the most amazing talents available to us. ):
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Postby marsh21 » Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:19 am

Missio wrote:It makes me sad when I see paladin's that don't have or don't have maxed out the Ardent Defender talent. Its one of the most amazing talents available to us. ):


AD is what makes a tankadin a maintankadin. I love it.

Also, in terms of the two specs, I have been main tanking as 5/60/6 since the day I hit 80 and haven't touched it, nor have I felt a need to change my spec. We have a reliable unholy DK in guild (he's our GM and makes it to 99% of our raids) so I don't need PoJ. The one benefit I would see from Conviction is that the 5% crit also works for off-healing.

Sometimes I let my OT handle the single-tank boss encounters and I just toss on my healing gear out of boredom, i.e. on Loatheb where multiple tanks are just a waste. In such a case, I feel like the 0/58/13 would reign supreme, since the 5% crit on healing spells would help out if you off-heal often as prot.

Then again, last week I was suckered into healing Naxx-25 because we had a bunch of tanks online and only 3 healers, so I tossed on my healing gear but "forgot" to mention that I wasn't going to respec holy. We cleared 2 wings before they realized there was no Beacon of Light buff active on raid, since I was the only pally healing and I was still 5/60/6. When they asked me to go respec, I posted the recount and they were amazed to see that their prot healer was 2nd on the meters, only .2% behind. 2500 spellpower, 33% crit, 13% haste raid buffed as prot, they can suck it.
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Postby Diocaska » Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:31 am

thenNATEgoes wrote:
Diocaska wrote: Regardless, iirc I wasn't abusing the SotR bug.

Not raided Naxx since patch day I don't think, so will get a WWS if I go this week.


You either had the lower rank bounded to your action bar or you didn't.

This is the issue, too many paladins used JoL threat and Double Shield Slamming as a crutch and now it's gone.

Now most of them are concerned about their "Max TPS."


How exactly does binding a 2nd SotR matter if I wasn't using it in my rotation during that WWS? Someone asked for a WWS of SoV use. I provided that.

It was in reply to this comment:

Anyone have a WWS of them using SoV for an entire run post 3.0.8 (because I'm sure seals/judge is a bigger % with only 1 ShoR)?


Anyways, I might be doing Naxx 10 sometime this week, so I can get a more recent WWS soon.
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Postby leperkhaun » Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:53 am

Archimeades wrote:The build you can't see is the standard 5/60/6 with no points in DG or JotJ and 4/5 in reck.


Why would you skip JotJ? Its a flat decrease in damage taken. I guess if you had someone who you know could always apply a similar debuff... but for 2 points in reck?
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Postby Jutul » Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:58 pm

Ok fellow tanks, I need some advice. Both of these specs - the 0/58/13 and the current one I have, 5/60/6, are both nice specs. I love how i almost never lose aggro in 5/60/6 even with ppl who are fairly geared out in nothing but 25 man and HoV badge gear. The TPS is just amazing. However I can see times when I am a lowly OT or when MTing I want to kite, or quickly get up to mobs and pull them to quicken the run so we can get done faster. In fact I have dabbled with such a build in the past before and found it nice in some situations.

Which build of these 2 would be the best to stick with in the end for 10 and 25 man raiding? I am trying to continue to learn fights and be a better tank but I also want a build I can stick with and not worry about changing because I know no matter what the situation is I will be fine. Both i know are fine for heroics so I want to look in teh long term at our current raids and the new ones come 3.1.
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