[25] How do you gear for Patchwerk?

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[25] How do you gear for Patchwerk?

Postby Kalakaua » Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:30 am

If 2 hateful strikes kill me no matter what, is it still important to be block capped and will additional stamina help even if it doesn't push me to the point of surviving two hatefuls?
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Postby Playdoh » Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:37 am

MT get avoid/block capped

OT (hatefuls) switch to some stamina.
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Postby Candiru » Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:41 am

Depends how your healers are healing I think, if you commonly die by a small amount as you didn't get enough healing between hatefulls then more stam is good, since it will let you survive 2 in a pinch.

Block capping isn't really helpful on Patchwerk.(unless you just happen to be block capped in your MT gear)
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Postby Garath.Gorefiend » Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:48 pm

Playdoh wrote:MT get avoid/block capped

OT (hatefuls) switch to some stamina.


I agree, stacking stamina doesn't hurt, but once you meet the minimum stamina threshold, avoidance is more important for hatefuls since they can be avoided.

Basically, if you get 2 hatefuls in a row with no heals in between your dead, so really once you have enough HP to take a hateful without dieing, the success/fail is your healers.

I don't believe it is currently possible for any tank (without using cooldowns) to soak two concurrent hatefuls with no heals...we just can't get our HP/AC high enough

Generally hatefulls are averaging somewhere between 22-24k per landed attack can't recall what the maximum is, but guessing 27k???

So if your over 30k buffed with decent AC, you can be a hateful tank, the rest is up to the healers.
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Postby Splug » Fri Dec 19, 2008 3:07 pm

Due to the high throughput on the damage, increasing effective health is still valuable. A lot of healing plans for this encounter involve a sustained 3-4 minute spamfest, and the larger the margin for error you can provide the better.

Assuming a 23k hit against 30k health, you'll require >=16k healing (more than a single large heal) after each hateful to not die to the following hit. At 40k health, you only require >=6k healing (within reason to only take one large heal). More importantly, it means you have more "effective remaining health" after X healing is administered going into HS#3.

But the simpler explaination is that threat is not a problem, stack up anything even remotely defense related and completely forsake offensive stats wherever possible. Given the choice between stamina and avoidance, take whatever allocates the most item value to survival. As for gems, balance whatever you feel you stacked less of from armor.

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Postby Ajantis » Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:30 am

I'd like some feedback too on this matter.
Here's my armory profile, do you think I'm ok for Patch 25men?
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Postby gummyrabbit » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:52 am

Ajantis wrote:I'd like some feedback too on this matter.
Here's my armory profile, do you think I'm ok for Patch 25men?


You can MT Patchwerk. It's the OTs that get pounded into the ground.
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Postby Wolvar » Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:01 am

You are nowhere near block capped with way too many blues still, I wouldn't let you OT nor MT patchwerk 25. (Tho' with the right healers and dps you could *probably* survive)
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Postby Belloc » Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:02 am

Wolvar wrote:You are nowhere near block capped with way too many blues still, I wouldn't let you OT nor MT patchwerk 25. (Tho' with the right healers and dps you could *probably* survive)

If you are referring to Ajantis, then I have no idea what you're thinking. His gear is absolutely fine for MT on Patchwerk, and with adequate healers, he'd be fine as OT.

Guilds have progression tanked heroic Patchwerk and even Malygos with worse gear than that.

We can't afford to do the old Karazhan bullshit of requiring tanks to come in with tier 5/6 quality gear. Every fight in Naxx-25 is designed to be completable with full heroic gear, which includes the blues.
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Postby gummyrabbit » Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:19 am

Wolvar wrote:You are nowhere near block capped with way too many blues still, I wouldn't let you OT nor MT patchwerk 25. (Tho' with the right healers and dps you could *probably* survive)


Just because gear is blue doesn't mean it's worse than purples. You need to look at his stam/mitigation/EH. He's geared enough to MT Patchwerk. Patchwerk hits for around 9K in 25 man Naxx. He's got almost 27k unbuffed...he can easily survive MTing Patchwerk.
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Postby Wolvar » Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:20 am

What I'm thinking is that he needs ~10% more visibile mitigation.

If you want an MT/OT in crafted and blues for a progression heroic Patchwerk, that's your call. He solicited opinions, I gave him mine.

There's a big difference between 4500 DTPS and 5500-6k DTPS.
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Postby Belloc » Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:38 am

Ajantis: Your gear is fine. If you can find a competent 25-man raid, you'll do fine on Patchwerk.
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Postby Eanin » Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:12 pm

Offtank, I'd say avoidance and armor. Stamina isn't so hot, since everyone dies in two hits. You want to be missed a lot and be easily healed. Therefore, avoidance+armor.

I chain through 15 indestructible potions a night when MTing. They're amazing.
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Postby Agergadin » Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:47 pm

If you can survive a hit from him, then you are geared enough. As mentioned, avoidance is the way go here. Cutting 1500-2500 from a 25k hit isn't going to help as much as being missed 5% more often. It doesn't hurt, but just doesn't help as much. Better geared will make it easier, but you still aren't going to mitigate his hatefuls to 2-hit survivable. Not yet at least.

If you are dieing, then your healers are failing. The healing demand is a LOT bigger on 25 man than 10 man. Basically you have 2 healers minimum per tank and they need to pretty much be spamming their big heals.

Make sure to stress to them that the worst hp range for you to be in this fight is 75%. That basically will give you more hp than the melee, but not enough to survive a strike. They really must get you to > 30khp in about 2 seconds after you take the strike, or you probably will die.

We did this fight on 25 man 2 weeks in a row as fail. 3rd week we went in there and told the healers not to stop healing unless it was via a stop cast macro followed by a recast. He went down.
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Postby Kellel » Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:15 pm

Although you can avoid hateful strikes ... they keep coming until they get you .. and they come fast lol just watch your combat log. Your healers may get an extra fraction of a second to get a heal off on you, but unless they are pally healers that have stacked haste and crit ... it's not going to matter much, you are going to be in a world of pain .. eventually lol.

with this fight, the only one that cares about aggro is the MT. Thats why we used the pally aggro machine. He goes after melee with the most remaining health. So all the tanks want their health either maxed or below another tanks remaining health lol ... it's when all the tanks get hit in quick succession that the healers should start chewing their nails.

Our secret ... more tanks lol, hopefully your dps is strong enough that you can budget for another tank without worrying about the enrage timer. a group of us actually pugged him 25 man style with 3 well geared warrior tanks soaking up the hateful strikes and a MT'ing pally avoidance machine :D. We had 3 Pally healers healing just the strike tanks with beacon's and the like, a priest keeping the MT up and a resto druid spamming big heals as needed. ... ... and it worked really well. Whenever a tank got hit with a strike, 3 immediate flash heals on him, which would also translate into heals on the other tanks via beacon's ..

If your healers are on their toes, the addition of extra tanks can help distribute those hateful strikes to decrease the odds that ANY tank will get hit with more than a single consecutive strike. Also the heals ensured that they were just big fat crit heals ... avoid hot's that would lead to premature strikes. The extra tank also helps if a tank does go down during the fight. We seemed to be suffering from chronic disconnects during patch.

Oh yeah, and all the tanks saved their shield/bubble walls and trinkets for the soft enrage at 5% ... it get's a little nasty there. All in all, everything went very well ... except rolling for the tank drops after .. ugggggg ... too many tanks lol!

also since it's not threat based, it's health based .. if a pally strike tank goes down during the fight, battle res + righteous fury + kings + LoH and you're back in the game :D ...
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