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3.0 Frequently *Answered* Questions - Tankadin basics.

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Postby Amarant_Pally » Sat Dec 13, 2008 2:48 pm

xstrykr wrote:If you're spending significantly more time as an add tank - i.e. your RL doesn't allow you to tank any of the bosses other than "when necessary" - then it might benefit you more to have it un-glyphed than glyphed. If you are the main tank for every single encounter, then I'd keep it glyphed.


I've been the primary raid tank for my guild since we started doing 25mans. While I would like the AS glyph for boss tanking...

...I did ONE Heroic with it, and HATED it...

...and I do a lot of Heroics.

Bye-bye AS Glyph. :(
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Postby knaughty » Sat Dec 13, 2008 4:16 pm

moonsond wrote:The question is - is it pretty often in current raid content that un-glyphed AS is better than glyphed?

Other people have covered some of this (and quoted my OP), but I'll cover this bit:

I've tanked everything as far as Sarth+2 (25-man). Sarth+3 next week. Mostly as primary or joint-tank - I'm not "OT only".

Zero temptation to glyph Avenger's Shield in current content. Would feel like a major gimp.

The advantage of glyphed AS is a poofteenth more threat. Given JoL mechanics, "more threat" is not a high priority.

The disadvantage is "less multi-target threat, especially on the pull". Disad is much worse than the bonus. I actually find that my AE TPS is what I wish I had more of. Mages and warlocks will peel out of Consecrate easily, I'm tab-spamming HotR and using AS on CD throughout Naxx.

If the AS glyph was "CD reduced to 15/20 seconds" I'd take that glyph in a heartbeat over Judgement. Chain-pulling Naxx with a 30-sec CD on my opener is painful. Exorcism + Holy Wrath kind of cover, but WTB lower AS CD.
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Postby knaughty » Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:36 pm

Vaughan, via PM wrote:You're running with the spec I was planning on using when I finish leveling, so I've got a quick question for you. Any mana issues? My former gm would like to tell me I'm an idiot for not wanting to go 5/5 Benediction, so thought I'd ask someone who's opinion I value over theirs.

Thanks.

In Soviet Russia, your former GM is the idiot.

Benediction if for people who use a mana bar as a mana bar rather than a rage bar. IE: Ret and Holy.

Sanctuary is godly for regen. We mana conserve when required by taking Consecration in/out of the rotation.

Skipping consecrate, getting sanc up over kings on easy content and use of Divine Plea are all you need. For trash, it's worth remembering that if you have 5x the threat of your DPS, you can actually just auto-attack, rather than aiming for 10x. I frequently stand around casting bugger all while tanking. At KT-25, for example, tanking aboms, I use 3-4 aggro moves, then take a break: AS/Exorcism, Judge, ShoR - OK, I have 40k threat, ignore mob and start hunting for the next one with mouse-look.

Last Resort: Pop a mana pot. It's about 80% of a mana bar, only do it from "running on fumes". If you run through an entire mana bar + Divine Plea + a second bar from the pot... well, you're doing something bigger than "Spec Benediction" wrong. As yet, i have never had to /sit or "turn back on mob" to recover mana, both of which were common tactics in TBC.
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Postby knaughty » Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:37 pm

Updated based on:

• Clearing everything as far as [25]Sarth+2
• Disparaging SoB as a tanking seal.
• anything else I thought of.
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Postby Thornir » Mon Dec 15, 2008 7:59 pm

It seems to me that the major point of the AS glyph is the difference between Add pulling and Boss pulling.

Add pulling = multiple targets
100% dmg to all three targets
Pull aggro + 100% X 3 > Pull aggro + 200% X 1

Even with two targets...
Pull aggro + 100% X 2 = Pull aggro + 200% X 1
And only one target gets the 200%, so the other is more likely to get pulled off unless you do some fast tanking.

However, suppose there is only one man to pull...say, a boss.

You get double damage from the attack, which comes out as double TPS
Pull aggro + 200% X 1 > Pull aggro + 100% X 1 (only one target)

I myself have not glyphed this. This glyph is more for a boss-tanking MT than an add-tanking OT, and I perfer Judgement because I use it more in my rotation, but the choice personal and situational.
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Postby Widdox » Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:06 am

The problem with glyphing AS is that the cooldown to too long to consider part of boss rotation threat. I was going to glyph AS until I started tanking in wotlk and realized that I dont need it.
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Postby knaughty » Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:50 pm

Widdox wrote:The problem with glyphing AS is that the cooldown to too long to consider part of boss rotation threat. I was going to glyph AS until I started tanking in wotlk and realized that I dont need it.

This.

I was unsure until I started tanking, was leaning against.

Once I started tanking, there is no way I'd take the AS glyph. I'm actually running with two major glyphs rather than take it, I consider it a downgrade.

=edit= (Because SoV glyph was not available. I've since picked it up)
Last edited by knaughty on Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Candiru » Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:30 am

The way I see it you have your basic rotation, with Avenger's shield and soon, Hand of Reckoning as ranged "pick-up" moves which you can use at any point in your rotation.

Since hand of reckoning is a single target pick-up, I'd want a three target one too!

Not much point in having two single target pick-ups imho.
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Postby knaughty » Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:02 pm

3.0 finished other than getting all my achievements complete. Updates based on that.

Also covers 3.0.8.

Pretty sure this can sit on the back burner for a while while I work on the advanced version.

That said, suggestions/corrections still welcome.
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Postby Archimeades » Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:22 pm

I'd find some commentary on Sacred Shield useful. A recently 80 tankadin (like myself) who just got this shiny new ability is probably not sure how to weave it into a 96969 rotation, or even if it's an "needs to be up all the time" or "panic button" type of ability. Did a bit of searching in the training forum but I'm not seeing a lot of Basic info on it's proper use.
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Postby knaughty » Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:37 pm

Archimeades wrote:I'd find some commentary on Sacred Shield useful. A recently 80 tankadin (like myself) who just got this shiny new ability is probably not sure how to weave it into a 96969 rotation, or even if it's an "needs to be up all the time" or "panic button" type of ability. Did a bit of searching in the training forum but I'm not seeing a lot of Basic info on it's proper use.


The issue is that I don't believe it stacks with itself - six copies up doesn't proc six times as often. So if you have a Holy paladin keeping it up there's not a lot of point putting it up yourself.

Because it is both a proc and quite small, it isn't much of a panic button either.

I'll add it to the to-do list, but don't believe it is a big one.
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Postby Flex » Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:42 pm

Archimeades wrote:I'd find some commentary on Sacred Shield useful. A recently 80 tankadin (like myself) who just got this shiny new ability is probably not sure how to weave it into a 96969 rotation, or even if it's an "needs to be up all the time" or "panic button" type of ability. Did a bit of searching in the training forum but I'm not seeing a lot of Basic info on it's proper use.


Use it whenever you remember you have it. With Mark and Fort it absorbs a bit over 1000 damage for me when self cast which is a lot of damage saved over the 30 second buff.

Also you can get wonderful stuff like 456(Blocked 1378)(Absorbed 1030) when it goes off.
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Postby steadypal » Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:57 pm

i saw that you suggested divine guardian, i was thinking of respeccing for it, in the guild im in we pretty much rotate MT's each boss, or whoever wants to tank it, tanks it,

if only DG didnt cause forebearance, cause i wouldnt use this cause i'd still want divine protection ready for use, ala air phase sapph, etc...




in your opinion, POJ vs tuskarrs boot enchant?


or neither?
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Postby knaughty » Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:13 pm

steadypal wrote:in your opinion, POJ vs tuskarrs boot enchant?

or neither?


I currently use neither, because I have an Unholy DK who's usually in-raid.

If I didn't, I'd get Tuskarr's, because we have two ret paladins and thus there's nowhere good to put points in ret to get to tier-3.

If no unholy DK and no ret then:
5/5 deflection
2/2 judge
3/3 HotC
2/2 PoJ
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Postby Panzerdin » Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:41 pm

I, on the other hand, am a PoJ whore and maintain that you should take it by default, because you've nowhere else to put the points anyway, while the 15% speed increase can be a lifesaver when you need to avoid environmental hazards.
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