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How to Spec Protection: A Talent Guide (3.0-3.1)

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Postby majiben » Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:01 pm

You dps should be handling the sparks on magylos if you're tanking. And If you aren't having one of the tanks go dps may be a greater benifit. Not to mention a lot of dps classes have stuns or roots.
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Postby Harblz » Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:06 am

Having respecced a few times this week, I've been debating my spec and where I can put some points to get a greater benefit.

I currently run a 5/58/8 spec. Though noticing my guild's abundance of ret pallys, I should drop HotC. For 25's we will always have a pally with kings, which would free up another 5 points, but I can't guarantee that our 10 mans will have kings other than mine.

My big problem is trying to find a decent place to throw those points around. Imp judgements doesn't seem like it would be worth messing up my rotation for. And points in benediction would be a waste as I never have mana problems to begin with.

That being said, what are people's thoughts on reckoning? I know it used to not be worth it, but at this point, having extra points to throw around, perhaps it would be ok?
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Postby Aurelie » Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:49 am

Harblz wrote:Having respecced a few times this week, I've been debating my spec and where I can put some points to get a greater benefit.

I currently run a 5/58/8 spec. Though noticing my guild's abundance of ret pallys, I should drop HotC. For 25's we will always have a pally with kings, which would free up another 5 points, but I can't guarantee that our 10 mans will have kings other than mine.

My big problem is trying to find a decent place to throw those points around. Imp judgements doesn't seem like it would be worth messing up my rotation for. And points in benediction would be a waste as I never have mana problems to begin with.

That being said, what are people's thoughts on reckoning? I know it used to not be worth it, but at this point, having extra points to throw around, perhaps it would be ok?


You really should have one of those points in Imp Judgements and so that you can follow the 969 rotation and maximize your threat. It's really up to you where to throw the other two points, though I'd suggest either Imp HoJ or Divine Guardian. Reckoning is pretty weak and you'd probably get more utility out of one of the other choices.
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Postby Harblz » Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:54 am

Was thinking about something like 5/58/8. Seems like the best possible spec I can come up with.

As an fyi, I MT 10 and 25 man naxx/malygos/sarth currently.
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Postby majiben » Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:48 am

Harblz wrote:Was thinking about something like 5/58/8. Seems like the best possible spec I can come up with.

As an fyi, I MT 10 and 25 man naxx/malygos/sarth currently.
Do you have a ret paladin or elemental shaman for your 10 mans? If the answer is no then take points from SotP and put them in HotC. If you happen to have that ret paladin in your 10 mans then drop the points in imp Might and put them in DG.
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Postby Harblz » Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:19 pm

Yea, I actually run with both in my 10 mans.
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Postby Garath.Gorefiend » Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:56 pm

Would like to toss in my two cents on the discussion between SotP vs Conviction.

First off, on paper, SotP does indeed increase overall dps by more than conviction does on a point for point basis. Not by nearly as much as was originally occurring though prior to all the nerfs to seal and judgement damage.

However, the reason I say 'On Paper', is that it makes the assumption that you are using SoV and Judging Justice.

If you judge Wisdom or Light, the dps drops. If your sealing Wisdom or Light, dps drops even more.

In fact, if you are not using a dps seal, then conviction actually adds more dps.

Frankly, in a balance scenario, Conviction is probably superior to SotP from a versatility and scaling perspective.

Many of our raids also have no ret paladins, so the option to talent into HotC is not all bad either.

Anyways, just my two cents, don't put blinders on and assume that because something looks better on paper, that it is always better in reality.
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Postby knaughty » Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:51 pm

Garath.Gorefiend wrote:Would like to toss in my two cents on the discussion between SotP vs Conviction.


Where are you putting the 4 points to get to Conviction?

Even if was Conviction is better than SotP, it costs 9 talent points, not 5.
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Postby Conaan! » Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:56 pm

Knaughty wrote:
Garath.Gorefiend wrote:Would like to toss in my two cents on the discussion between SotP vs Conviction.


Where are you putting the 4 points to get to Conviction?

Even if was Conviction is better than SotP, it costs 9 talent points, not 5.


5/5 parry
1/2 judgement
3/3 hotc
1/2 imp might

there you go, conviction

and you get a good amount of utility with it also
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Postby Levantine » Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:12 pm

Garath.Gorefiend wrote:If you judge Wisdom or Light, the dps drops.


Please to be explain this?
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Postby Conaan! » Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:41 pm

Levantine wrote:
Garath.Gorefiend wrote:If you judge Wisdom or Light, the dps drops.


Please to be explain this?


http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=20332

nowai

hes saying that the dps increase from the talent is wasted because it doesnt work with a backup seal
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Postby knaughty » Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:07 pm

Conaan! wrote:3/3 hotc

Decent if you have no ret pally. 97.23% useless otherwise.
Conaan! wrote:1/2 imp might

Pure filler. You know it, I know it.

Spec 0/2 or 2/2 Imp Might. But if you're so short pallies that prot is casting might, you'd use shouty-buff instead. The only time I've ever cast might is in a 5-man.

I'd go
5/5 parry
2/2 judgement
3/3 hotc

To get to PoJ (if I wanted it) or Tier-3 ret.

The real reason to spec Conviction (if there is one) is prot-heals, if you spend a lot of time healing. I make the prot-warriors DPS instead :D
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Postby Conaan! » Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:17 pm

Knaughty wrote:
Conaan! wrote:3/3 hotc

Decent if you have no ret pally. 97.23% useless otherwise.
Conaan! wrote:1/2 imp might

Pure filler. You know it, I know it.

Spec 0/2 or 2/2 Imp Might. But if you're so short pallies that prot is casting might, you'd use shouty-buff instead. The only time I've ever cast might is in a 5-man.

I'd go
5/5 parry
2/2 judgement
3/3 hotc

To get to PoJ (if I wanted it) or Tier-3 ret.

The real reason to spec Conviction (if there is one) is prot-heals, if you spend a lot of time healing. I make the prot-warriors DPS instead :D


well, the reason i went 1/2 imp might is because at points we dont have warrior (druid OT for 10 mans) and a holy pally that specced DG to see how it did, so i did might buffing because i might as well

2/2 judgement is nice for soloing or abusing shor bug, but past that and low mana situations (loatheb, possibility) its not too useful
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Postby Levantine » Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:31 pm

Conaan! wrote:
Levantine wrote:
Garath.Gorefiend wrote:If you judge Wisdom or Light, the dps drops.


Please to be explain this?


http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=20332

nowai

hes saying that the dps increase from the talent is wasted because it doesnt work with a backup seal


Please to be explain this.

He's saying that if you judge anything except JUSTICE your dps decreases.
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Postby Helpunot » Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:32 pm

My 2 cents on prot + kings...

If we take kings, our holy pallies are much more likely to not take it and go deeper into the ret tree. If we take kings, we choose between that and Sanctuary for ourselves (Sanctuary will always be my first choice for the 3% dmg reduction and mana return). Come next patch, ret will not take kings so they can get SotP because it increases all judgement damage.

So, we take kings, we can't buff ourselves with it, causes our holy pallies to not want it, we can buff the other tanks with it which makes us a more attractive OT than MT (back to being a buffbot) orrr they take sanctuary instead and only everyone else gets kings whereas healing now is too easy and holy doesn't really need to go deep into ret for the extra crit vs. the extra 2k health (which would make AD more effective) we would be getting if they had kings.

Edit: I'm not sure about the SotP thing, just looked on mmo champion's talent calc for 3.0.8 and it is the same as it is now. Our ret pally may have been mistaken but most of my argument remains the same.
If I am missing something obvious here, please point it out so I can stop being emo about the suggestion of prot taking kings for 25 mans where the only other spec that can viably take it will be holy.
Last edited by Helpunot on Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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