Heroics ranked by difficulty. By Threatco.

Strats / Info that doesn't fit in a specific instance

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Rate my rankings.

Strongly agree.
7
10%
Agree.
27
40%
Neither.
9
13%
Disagree.
17
25%
Strongly disagree.
8
12%
 
Total votes : 68

Re: Heroics ranked by difficulty. By Threatco.

Postby daemonym » Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:11 am

for the most part i agree with this, although i've found that every heroic is easy to regular difficulty minus 1 or 2 spots that can make or break a group which makes them a bit hard to gauge.

UK - watch fro the time bombs being set on the ground and the whole place is simple, otherwise your group might get chain asploded and wipe not knowing why.

VH - the ethereum guy and void walker can be very tough if your whole group doesn't know what to do or no time to explain it. g

DTK - if your healer has good reaction time the raptor boss won't be tough, otherwise you might want to just skip him.

CoS - just plain easy.

nexus - experience is indeed necessary for trash and bosses. if you've been through once or twice it's easy mode, otherwise it's just like what you'd expect from a heroic, mean and nasty.

GD - if you don't have good dps or people that don't know (or can't move around) the last boss, you won't be finishing this heroic any time soon. i'd definitely rank this one as hard just for that as several fights can be VERY unforgiving.

UP - the gauntlet and second boss are the checks for this zone. decent dps will take out the second boss before heals become an issue. the gauntlet needs your group to be able to look around. have never finished this zone because of that >_<

AN - definitely hard, you need decent gear as opposed to full saronite. you need to be able to position well as a tank and know where to cast consecration or your healer can easily get roffle stomped. chain pulls test your groups endurance and ability to click health pots to help the healer.

i have yet to do the others, not enough hours in a day.
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Postby Kelaan » Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:22 am

There are several on the list that I've not run yet, so I don't know. However, it's nice to see that Azjol-Nerub and Old Kingdom are on the hard end of it. I feel that Azjol-Nerub is harder than Old Kingdom, though.

Old kingdom's trash is harder, in some spots (pre-second-boss), but is generally straightforward (especially now that I remembered Turn Evil. ;)). The first boss is very easy when you do the achievement, the second one is ... hard, but not impossible. The third boss becomes nearly trivial if you bring someone who can disarm. The last boss is the hard one, but if you have cooldowns saved, it helps. As long as people can kill the healer, it should be OK. (My last group had a resto druid, and MAN was that hard.)

Still, it seemed easier than Azjol-Nerub. The first boss has wiped so many groups of mine. We almost always wipe once on Hadronox, and nearly every kill I've been the last one standing (or at least had no healer). Anub'Arak, though, is a real bitch. Part of it is I think that I haven't been going with well-geared DPS, some of the time, but generally we've had SO much trouble with the venomancers.

- DPS has to avoid pounds. I had a guy that literally died on the first or second one every time, after I explained it. (Eventually he went offline, so I want to think it was latency related. I'm not optimistic.)
- omg Venomancers. They always seem to rape us. Next time I'll play smarter and fear one of them, though.

Still, very few of the groups I've been in have survived the last burrow phase. Either it's a slow wipe from the get-go as someone died (fail!), or it looks like we're kicking ass and then everything falls apart. =/ The best results I've seen have been when I've had multiple DKs who can drop army of the dead. ;)

I feel like Azjol-Nerub heavily favors a group that is stacked deliberately (rather than random DPS peoples). Part of my failure is in not playing to this fact, I guess. Still, I feel like it's harder than Old Kingdom, overall, even if the final bosses seem very close in difficulty.
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Postby Threatco » Tue Dec 23, 2008 7:57 pm

You can LoS Insanity around the big round pillars, and the shadow images die upon spawning. Everyone has to LoS correctly; 1 person being in LoS of the boss will cause the spawns to .... spawn ... normally.

Edit: Passionario says this has been hotfixed; I'll have to check later today.


Has been fixed for a couple weeks. If you run far away during insanity he will sometimes despawn and reset a couple minuets later Not a good thing.


I agree with most all of the comments. There are hard spots, there is some places that need experienced group. But I am trying to based this on a pro group just getting to 80 and wanting to know what in their gear they can hit up first without it basicly being pointless.

AN kill order is important. Once you have that down on top of everything you said, then it "imo" should be easier then OK.
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Postby phaqueue » Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:45 pm

Easy:
Utgarde Keep
Violet Hold
Azjol'Nerub
CoT: Strat

Normal:
Gun'Drak
Utgarde Pinnacle
Halls of Lightning
Halls of Stone
Nexus
Drak'Tharon Keep

Hard
Old Kingdom
Oculus

I would argue that oculus is easily the hardest one yet... just because people can't seem to get down the idea of reading what drakes do and using them correctly... I'm definitely not looking forward to finishing the achievements in there... it's just such a pain...

Old kingdom I listed as hard as well - for 2 reasons... it has a lot of caster pulls (with really bad patting in that area) and a lot of "stupidity checks" that people seem to fail at... not to mention that insanity with any type of healer means that as a prot pally... I can't seem to kill them (especially with druids... nourish is retarded)

otherwise - they are all just about common sense IMO
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Postby Danth » Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:48 pm

"the second one is ... hard, but not impossible. "

The way I do this boss (second one in Old Kingdom--fire orb guy) is to get the entire group to gather up on him in a tight clump with fire resist aura up. Yes, we take some damage from the orbs, but they move away on their own *and* it keeps us bunched together to easily rescue the person who is 'fed' upon. My wife (she's a healer Druid) considers this method far easier than any other we've tried. I wouldn't try it with a Holy Paladin though. Since we adopted this method, this boss feels quite easy, even easier than the first.

In general, the wife considers Utgarde Keep the easiest heroic and Azjol-Nerub the hardest among the dungeons we've done (which is, admittedly, not all of them). Since she's the healer, I rate her opinion as globally more important than my own since most of them are pretty much the same from the tank's perspective.

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Postby Veilan » Wed Dec 24, 2008 5:25 am

Keep in mind that individual experiences are strongly skewed, based on the order in which the instances were visited (and the gear thus had improved).
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Postby Kelaan » Wed Dec 24, 2008 11:42 am

Danth wrote:The way I do this boss (second one in Old Kingdom--fire orb guy) is to get the entire group to gather up on him in a tight clump with fire resist aura up. Yes, we take some damage from the orbs, but they move away on their own *and* it keeps us bunched together to easily rescue the person who is 'fed' upon. My wife (she's a healer Druid) considers this method far easier than any other we've tried.


The second boss ... it's funny that you mention that. I last did it with a resto druid, and even though they didn't DPS during the "feeds", it still seemed easy. Resto druid + sacred shield on people seemed to work well. It was chaotic but not really hard-seeming.

I find it VERY ironic that a resto druid makes second boss easy, and the last boss NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE. Or, that's how it seems to me. Do you stack groups a certain way to make it easier, or what? Are there any DPS that have an easier time dealing with a druid healer's double, while not getting owned by the other dps? Army of the dead helps, but it's a long cooldown and thus can't be used on both phases.


I find it easiest to do the first boss with the achievement. It seriously makes the encounter much easier -- and if your healer can/will drop some DPS, too, it's almost crazy easy. Bring a DK for army of the dead, and you can even spend some time self-healing or something.


Since she's the healer, I rate her opinion as globally more important than my own since most of them are pretty much the same from the tank's perspective.


Haha. :D GREAT philosophy. I agree, I've not really found many things hard from a tank's perspective (except Skadi's encounter, which I have NOT mastered). More things seem to revolve around stuff that taxes the healer, or requires good DPS players.
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Postby Threatco » Wed Dec 24, 2008 7:47 pm

Keep in mind that individual experiences are strongly skewed, based on the order in which the instances were visited (and the gear thus had improved).


I just wanted an excuse to post my SS :wink:

You have a valid point. But I did all those in the same gear. The few upgrades I still need have been elusive these past couple weeks.

Got my 250 emblem achievement yesterday :D

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For skadi, I will be writing a guide later but.

Step 1. Tell your group what your doing or they will complain and argue.

Step 2. start the event. Have group stand at back wall. Do not advance forward. Kill the pairs of adds as they come until you get 5 harpoons. the stationary mobs do not have harpoons.

Step 3. Tell the idiot that didn't listen to stfu or you will cut his balls off if he asks you to move ahead again.

Step 4. When you have 5 harpoons walk our of the Gauntlet area into the next room. The mobs will despawn as soon as everyone is out you don't have to finish any off.

Step 5. As soon as the mobs despawn (1 second later) run back in and run to the guns. Skadi won't be there he takes 1 minuit to respawn.

Step 6. Give your harpoons out to anyone you trust. Idealy 1 each.

Step 7. Tank stand in the doorway. 2dps and healer stand behind you by guns. 3rd dps goes near skadi. 30 undead will spawn all at once at the same spot as soon as someone goes near skadi, he will yell something and it is instant spawn. Drop a conc in advance. Then holy wrath stun them. Then when it wears off pop a bubble shield.

Step 8. 1 second after the 30 mobs spawn, all dps and healers come in the room until the 30 adds are dead. You will be safe from skadi frozen breath and all 30 adds should die in 1 min.

Step 9. As soon as all the mobs are dead and its just respawns. drop a conc then everyone goes shoot skadi down of first pass.

Step 10. Finish off the adds! They may spawn 1 more time after skadi jumps.

Step 11. Tank skadi in a corner by the guns. When he whirlwind strafe sideway staying behind the guns. He will head off towards your group. When he is almost too him. TAUNT. You will see it works and he will start whirlwinding back to you. By the time he does get back he stops and you tank him in the other corner until the next whirlwind.

The reason for the collect/reset strat is it's actualy faster then doing the gauntlet. You end up having to fight about twice as many mobs doing the gauntlet then if you do it this way. Saves about 3-4 mins and removes having to rely on people to dodge ice patches/ wait for you to get aggro before dpsing adds.



Alot of people will cry thinking it's a strat to be safer but take longer. But it is faster.
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Postby Arjuna » Wed Dec 24, 2008 8:35 pm

old kingdom...I do it daily, it's a walk in the park really...
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Postby Elsie » Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:39 pm

Got my 250 emblem achievement yesterday

Grats, I'm 400 away from 1000 =P
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Postby majiben » Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:11 pm

Personally I prefer to tank skadi in the middle of the hall. When he whirl winds the melee and tank run north if he goes after them and the casters and healer run south. Leaves lots of room for error means you never get caught on something and have you or your melee diced to bits. If you are running out of room either to the north or south simply reposition when he is not whirl winding.


Basic set up. Red is skadi, blue is melee and tank, green is casters and healer.
Image

Here skadi chases the melee north while the healer and casters keep pace.
Image

Here skadi chases the caster north while the tank and melee keep pace. You can taunt him back to you if you want.
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Last edited by majiben on Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Arjuna » Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:11 pm

I wonder why people think old kingdom is hard? :(
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Postby Threatco » Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:49 pm

Because of spell flingers.
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Postby phaqueue » Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:53 pm

@ maj's skadi strat...

I like the idea... however I have a way I really like that seems to work best...

basically - I tank him right at the harpoons...

the melee are behind him (with the whole hallway behind them) and the casters behind the melee - usually at close to max range...

when he whirlwinds... the melee run out - if he chases a melee or caster - they have the whole hallway to run... if he sticks to me for whirlwind... melee run out - healer heals me through the whirlwind...

if they have to run - they can chase him back to me... but I never have to move...

saves a lot of "oops - I dragged him the wrong way"

there's only one way to take him... and everyone runs that direction...

if he chases - I can either run behind to DPS... or use the time to heal myself if needed
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Postby Threatco » Wed Dec 24, 2008 11:08 pm

You dont have to eat it.

When you are behind the guns, if you run along the far wall behind all 4 guns, skadi will have a hard time going around them to get to you. You can barley fit between the guns and the wall. So by running behind them he doent come close to you to you. If he never goes for the ranged then you will have to go to the opposite corner and back, but he sitll shouldent hit you twice.

Then when he goes for the casters, taunt.

TAUNT

this fight is easy ignore everything just TAUNT him back to you off your healer. Ranged never had to move an inch, me nor melee ever got hit more then once at start. With taunt glyph there is no reason it should be on CD.
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