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I need some quick advice...

Strats / Info that doesn't fit in a specific instance

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I need some quick advice...

Postby Crazyknight » Sun Dec 21, 2008 9:49 am

I don't know what I am doing wrong and I almost sure my healer is more than ok.


I have 540 def rat with like 23800-24000ish health unbuff my armor is at 22000ish and my total avoidance is 89% now from what I am reading here which I always trust most heroics should be ''easy'' witht this or less stats but I'm finding some of them still hard my healer which I trust a lot and is a fellow guildie should be ok also he has around 2000 spell power or more (priest) and still there are some encounters that really make me blow a lot of my cooldowns on mobs and some bosses for example yesterday we did Heroic Culling of Strat and when the part of the blue dragonKin run was kinda hard and we wipe like 3 or 4 times.I know some of our dps in the group need more gear but still I think the tank and my healer should not be having such musch trouble sometimes.

Also Utgarde Pinnacle the Sidaki guy ( don't rememebr name well) was horrible we could not get past him and we know what to do. I try to get agrro as fast as I could but he kept going first to priest and 1 shot him.

Also Azjul Nerub was hard, could not go past first boss adds.

Just wondering if anyone has any advice of what I should be doing or maybe if I need more stats or gear ? I could change to ret and pug but I really don't want to that much cuz I like to run with guildies.


Any kind of advice on my gear would be appreciated I have 15 heroic emblems and trying to save for the emblem neck piece Chain military or something is call.



Here is my armor

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... razyknight
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Postby Othersider » Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:06 am

Your total avoidance - dodge/parry/miss - is far from 89%. But from your gear you should be ok starting some of the easier heroics. AN and UP are on the harder side of things and you're having trouble in gauntlets. Try UK or nexus or the like for a more paced run, and don't be afraid to use CC. You may want to pick up the badge libram before you get the neck.
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Postby Crazyknight » Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:58 am

Othersider wrote:Your total avoidance - dodge/parry/miss - is far from 89%. But from your gear you should be ok starting some of the easier heroics. AN and UP are on the harder side of things and you're having trouble in gauntlets. Try UK or nexus or the like for a more paced run, and don't be afraid to use CC. You may want to pick up the badge libram before you get the neck.







Ok guess I'm using the old macro to calculate duh :D that was my bad can someone tell me how to calculate total avoidance now? is there a new macro for that?
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Postby Danth » Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:56 pm

Don't listen to the guy who says "you should be okay to start easier heroics". You're okay to start easier heroics with ~20K health and less than 535 defense. With the stats you have, you're plenty good to do all of them. A healer with 2000 spellpower is quite likely on the slightly overgeared side; my wife started doing heroics when she had all of about 1200 Spellpower. Which *class* is your healer, incedentally? I'm used to having my wife--a Druid. She geared for mana regen as much as spellpower and a few encounters are very hard on her mana pool, but we've beaten everything we've tried so far (including 2-person Loken when our DPS all died on the first AOE).

Heroic dungeons are relatively easy overall, but there *are* individual encounters which offer a challenge as you have seen. Regarding the specific problem areas you mentioned:

In Stratholme, the dragonkin waves should not be causing problems. They spawn at a fixed rate and only have three or (once) four per spawn. If you're holding aggro on them, the only possible way you're dying is if your healer is doing something very wrong (is he spamming only some weak little flash heal or something?). In the room with four (two pairs), you have to pick them up before they kill anyone else. I like to stand under where one pair spawns and consecrate, and use Avenger's Shield on the other pair. When you reach the undead gauntlet part, don't rush yourself to the point of committing suicide. It's better to miss the timer than wipe.

For Skaldi, if he's killing your healer as soon as he lands, it suggests that you aren't taunting (or you're having remarkably bad luck on resists). Skaldi *is* tauntable, so use it. Optionally, you may put Hand of Proection on the healer as Skaldi lands to prevent that problem entirely. You can set his drake to your Focus Target to be able to constantly monitor its health and see when he's due to come down.

Azjol-Nerub's first series of waves are made easier if you have a Hunter who can use Tranquil Shot on the mobs which Frenzy, since they tend to kill people otherwise. Also be sure people break each other out of the webbing.

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Postby Othersider » Sun Dec 21, 2008 1:49 pm

I think your macro includes block rating so it's not avoidance per se, just uncrushability (or "unhittability" as some call it now).

As for "easier heroics" versus heroics in general, I was making a generalization. Anyone uncrittable tank can perform well in any heroic. But he's having trouble in harder heroics, so the logical fix is to try easier heroics.
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Postby majiben » Sun Dec 21, 2008 6:38 pm

If you go into a heroic with less than 535 defense skill any and all wipes can be blamed on you. Ever seen a back to back parry hasted crit? It's not pretty.
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Postby Danth » Sun Dec 21, 2008 9:04 pm

<shrug> Doesn't mean it can't be done, or even shouldn't with a sufficiently-equipped healer. With a group who doesn't mind, an odd wipe here and there is an acceptable price to pay to avoid unnecessarily wasting time in normal mode. I was fortunate enough to have 540 immediately upon hitting 80 (by 78 actually), but I saw no reason that it should be considered 'necessary' in the easier heroic dungeons. If a decent tank can do them with an off-spec healer, then a good healer can get by with a weaker tank.

It's not an issue for the original poster anyway since he's more than fine in that regard anyhow. Given his current equipment level, it sounds more as though his groups are just doing things slightly incorrectly. In this case, practice makes perfect.

Finally, an error correction: There are two pulls of 4-dragonkin in Strath, not one. I only noticed that today, as they tend to stand on top of each other.

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Postby Zeels » Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:54 am

Did some heroics in the beginning with ~520 defense. When doing heroic stratholme I almost had an heartattack watching my healthbar go up and down. So I do recommend you to get 540 defense. Allso when you are new to heroics:

- Try the easier once first (drak'thalon keep for instance)
- Bring lots of CC
- Bring a healer with heroic experience (armory the healer)
- Use consumables
- Read up on the bosses in advance
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Postby Belloc » Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:32 am

For your Skadi issues, try this: First, start the gauntlet and have everyone stay in the 2nd boss' room. Pull the mobs in there, make sure no one does ANYTHING, and just run to the wall opposite the gauntlet hall. The mobs will despawn in short time, letting your group run past where the boss usually is. Everyone runs to the end of the gauntlet, into the room where the mobs spawn. One person (your weakest/non-aoe dps) runs back to the boss and starts the gauntlet.

At this point, ALL of the mobs will spawn in the little room. You want to have your consecration up and immediately hit holy wrath. At this point, your group should AOE them down as hard and fast as possible. Once they are down, everyone moves into the room and you start collecting harpoons. Once you've got enough harpoons, YOU, the tank, use them on the boss. You'll have to have careful timing, because mobs will still be spawning and you'll need to make sure you still have threat on them. I recommend throwing down a consecrate before you run to the harpoon launchers. When the final group of mobs spawn (ie. the ones that spawn before you launch your last harpoon), just hit them with your avenger's shield. Launch the last harpoon while your group is still in the small room and the boss will land right on you. If you lay down a consecrate, he'll never even think about killing your healer.

Good luck!
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Postby Crazyknight » Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:52 pm

Thx a lot to everyone for all the advices I think my group including myself needs more practice on encounters cuz I noticed some days some encounters are way to easy and on another the same ones become hard but I'm sure we will get there.




Thank You again to all.
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Postby azraelfrost » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:26 pm

That is actually what I wanted to write. It is nice to have a perfectly geared group to run heroics with but without experience that won't help a lot.

Also I agree with Majiben - heroics with less then 353 def is just unprofessionell (if you want to call it that). In my experience it is mainly the tank that manoeuvres the group through a heroic and leads them to victory. Less then 353 def is bad preparation.

About Skadi - he can be a bit of a bit**. Before he jumps on the dragoon you can /focus him so you have an easier time targetting. Then just save your frisbee cooldown and throw it at him.

My healer usually died in the first whirlwind because they did not run away but moved backwards. -.- Make sure there is a decent ammount of space between Skadi and you healer and all know to turn around and run forward from the whirl.
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Postby Playdoh » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:43 pm

On skadi I like to actually let him get 1/2 to his whirlwind target and then taunt him.

He will then turn to me, and be the time he gets to me his WW is over, and everyone dps's again.

I hate it when I am the WW target.
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Postby daemonym » Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:14 pm

99% of the heroics are based on knowing what to do as once you hit 535+ defense you're very likely to have enough health n armor. read up on the guides in here and you'll have a much easier time with the learning curves of them.
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