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About Illidan

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About Illidan

Postby Shai » Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:55 am

I hope this is the right area since I don't actually have anything to contribute to the subject, just very curious. So apparently due to shear mechanic it's pretty much impossible for paladins to tank Illidan himself, so for this encounter you'd have to tank one of the elementals. Anybody tried it and if so what kind of fire res set did you use? I guess you'd need as high fire res as possible, close to 300, with as high as possible defence (and resi) and tons of hp.

edit: Actually maybe if you stacked whole lot of block rating? Dunno. Disadvantaged anyway.
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Postby PsiVen » Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:12 am

If you're just as uncrushable to Illidan as any other raid boss, then Shear won't hit you. He cannot actually crush, but Shear requires that 102.4% to avoid every time.

We got a couple attempts in phase 2 Monday and I was wearing about 280 buffed FR. I got smoked pretty hard and won't be going back without 365 FR and cap defense/resil.
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Postby Shai » Wed Oct 03, 2007 12:07 pm

Shear can't miss... 101.8 dodge, parry and block is a lot harder than with miss included. Our warrior tried tanking it in his uncrushable set, not a good idea. Really made me a sad panda to notice that.
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Postby Lore » Wed Oct 03, 2007 12:20 pm

#1: 101.8? Wha? I think you mean 102.4. Also we most definitely can tank Illidan.

#2: 300 FR? Wha? 365 is the cap, unless you mean unbuffed, which is 295. Same fire resist setup as anyone else, FR is more important than defense.
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Postby Shai » Wed Oct 03, 2007 12:31 pm

1: Our warrior was wearing combined 102.4% miss, dodge, parry and block without shield block. He got hit by shear. Apparently it can't be missed so you need to get 100% dodge, parry and block against lvl 73s which is easy for warriors with shield block, but not so much for us. Unless there's something we missed?

2: I ment unbuffed, 295 is close to 300 anyway. :)
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Postby Lore » Wed Oct 03, 2007 12:48 pm

Even if Shear can't miss, it really shouldn't be hard for a Paladin tank in a guild that's progressed to Illidan to make up the extra 11-12% avoidance without sacrificing too much. And getting sheared isn't even a wipe, our MT actually got sheared 2 or 3 times on our first kill, and he just popped a trinket while we healed him through it.

If there's any disadvantage a Paladin has in regards to tanking Illidan, it's that we don't have Last Stand and Shield Wall available to tank him through enrages in P6.
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Re: About Illidan

Postby fiorina » Wed Oct 03, 2007 12:55 pm

Shai wrote:I hope this is the right area since I don't actually have anything to contribute to the subject, just very curious. So apparently due to shear mechanic it's pretty much impossible for paladins to tank Illidan himself, so for this encounter you'd have to tank one of the elementals. Anybody tried it and if so what kind of fire res set did you use? I guess you'd need as high fire res as possible, close to 300, with as high as possible defence (and resi) and tons of hp.

edit: Actually maybe if you stacked whole lot of block rating? Dunno. Disadvantaged anyway.


Illidan is quite paladin friendly fight(compared to some BT fights). We can tank elementals just fine, done by me and others on these boards. And there is no problem with tanking Illidan either, holy shield mitigate Shear just as good as shield block.
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Postby Shai » Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:14 pm

Aye, I guess I'm just overreacting. If you gear up a lot it should be doable, heck I miss about 4% in my current set, tho my hp is really bad. Our tanks have taken shears and lived, our tanks have also taken shears and it wiped us. I just know that our raid leader would never have a tank that can be hit by shear, it's just not acceptable to have a random chance to wipe the raid when it can be avoided. Also the 13k hits when enraged are kinda bad. Anyway thanks for being the voice of common sense, I'll just cross my fingers and wait for the news of the first paladin actually doing it.

P.S. @Lore: You are pro, keep up the good work! :wink:

edit: Fiorina any pointers on what kind of fire rest kit you used at all? I had a talk about paladins tanking the fire elementals and they were very doubtful. Said it's perfectly doable, but they weren't sure if we can get enough hp etc in fire res gear. oO
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Postby Anubisknight » Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:21 pm

Does this mean that paladins are actually better tanks for Illidan? I've noticed that warriors get hit with CBs quite often since their block charges typically run out before they can activate their next one. So, they'll be a higher chance that they'll get hit with shear than a pally tank would.
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Postby fiorina » Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:26 pm

Shai wrote:edit: Fiorina any pointers on what kind of fire rest kit you used at all? I had a talk about paladins tanking the fire elementals and they were very doubtful. Said it's perfectly doable, but they weren't sure if we can get enough hp etc in fire res gear. oO


I am using full heroic badge set, Flamebane helm +20FR enchant and 1 void sphere, +15FR on cloak, FR neck from SMV quest. With aura it's 367FR. You can use normal trinkets, bracers, rings and belt. Defense is around 470(depends on talents).

Regarding HP, see below. With shout and nightmare it would be around 20k.
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Postby Lore » Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:28 pm

Anubisknight wrote:Does this mean that paladins are actually better tanks for Illidan? I've noticed that warriors get hit with CBs quite often since their block charges typically run out before they can activate their next one. So, they'll be a higher chance that they'll get hit with shear than a pally tank would.


If you can be sure not to get sheared, then yes. Warriors wait to use shield block until he's actually casting shear, so they take a lot more damage over the course of the fight because they're not blocking the other hits.

The ONLY concern, like I said before, would be P6 when a Warrior can use Shield Wall and Last Stand in addition to things like Nightmare Seeds and Trinkets to help live through enrages.
Last edited by Lore on Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby fiorina » Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:29 pm

Anubisknight wrote:Does this mean that paladins are actually better tanks for Illidan? I've noticed that warriors get hit with CBs quite often since their block charges typically run out before they can activate their next one. So, they'll be a higher chance that they'll get hit with shear than a pally tank would.


From the Shear point of view yes, paladins are better tanks. From the burst damage point of view such as Enrage, Dark Barrage eating, healers having brainlag, warrior is better choice due to higher HP, avoidance and last stand/SW(assuming equal gears)
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Postby Lore » Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:30 pm

Dark Barrage shouldn't really be a concern for the Illidan tank, since he doesn't use that when he's on the ground being tanked.
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Postby Joanadark » Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:30 pm

Does this mean that paladins are actually better tanks for Illidan? I've noticed that warriors get hit with CBs quite often since their block charges typically run out before they can activate their next one. So, they'll be a higher chance that they'll get hit with shear than a pally tank would.


A) Illidan cannot crush

B) Warriors save SB for right before Shear, meaning that they are taking mostly normal hits unmitigated by block value.
A Paladin, on the other hand, would apply his Block Value mitigation evenly.
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Postby Shai » Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:47 pm

fiorina wrote:I am using full heroic badge set, Flamebane helm +20FR enchant and 1 void sphere, +15FR on cloak, FR neck from SMV quest. With aura it's 367FR. You can use normal trinkets, bracers, rings and belt. Defense is around 470(depends on talents).


Thanks this is exactly the info I was looking for. A bit less hp then warriors (suprise suprise?) but they never go very low anyway. I guess this can be my stupid thread of the month then.
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