Help needed on first ever movement fight

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Postby Nidal » Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:24 am

Everlight wrote: It always takes you to 20% health, regardless of how much health you have. So if your healer knows it's coming, they can just stop healing you, and wind up something big to land just as the Sonic Boom knocks you down to 20%.


This is just the sort of thing I needed to hear! Just so I am clear--what you are saying is that no matter how much health I currently have when Murmur starts casting the Sonic Boom it will never bring me down past 20%. Correct?

So, if I'm at 50%, I'll go to 20%. If I'm at 90% I'll go to 20%.

My healer can ignore topping me off, and time a heal to land just after the Boom. And as the next poster points out I can even bust out a heal myself.

For the sake of completeness, what is the time to cast for Sonic Boom?

Will a Priest Shield affect the damage done by Boom? Or is it a waste? In other words will I still go to 20% with a Shield in place or will it mitigate a bit?

Thanks for the feedback everyone!

ps. I'm working on the situational awareness...being a Pally tank had me spoiled as in the easier instances I've rarely had to do more than throw the shield, hit consecrate and then watch my timers. Loose mobs didn't exist...now in the tougher instances I find a CC'd mob or two does help with some pulls, and I've had to develop the ability to pick them up when the CC breaks.
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Postby Brute » Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:02 am

Don't worry about the cast time of sonic boom. Bottom line: just run. You need to get as fast as possible at turning and getting out of there, and then getting back in. Basically when he booms, turn right around and run straight back in. Find the edge of his hit box and make a mental note of where it is on the floor; that will increase your chances of getting out in time.

Yes, you can DS through the boom, and to make it easier you can definately do this. You can also LOH. But that's only two booms. In all liklihood you'll need to live through 3-4 booms before he dies. That means either 1. you get good at doing what you should be doing anyway, or 2. you put a high strain on the healers and greatly increase the chances for a wipe.

Will you get caught in the boom a few times before you get good at it? yes you will. But don't let that stop you from trying.
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Postby Bige » Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:27 am

Brute wrote:Yes, you can DS through the boom, and to make it easier you can definately do this. You can also LOH. But that's only two booms. In all liklihood you'll need to live through 3-4 booms before he dies. That means either 1. you get good at doing what you should be doing anyway, or 2. you put a high strain on the healers and greatly increase the chances for a wipe.


As several people have stated, the boom will only ever bring you down to 20% health, always. The boom cannot kill you. There is no need to DS a boom, there is no need to LoH a boom. The tricky part for this fight for paladins is we don't have a charge like warriors and druids to get back into melee range fast. If you get hit by the boom on the way out, you will be slow to get back in and this can likely lead to a wipe as well. In my experience, getting hit by a boom on the way out raises the risk of a wipe more than simply letting your healer know to top you up after a boom. When the boom starts, the healer doesn't need to drop a single heal because as low as your health is, it will always go to 20%. If they happen to be silenced due to the bomb effect, that's when DS and LoH should be used.

You will live through every single boom without needing to DS or LoH, it's simply a matter of being topped up afterwards. I have to disagree with the previous poster saying running in and out will help you get better at what you should be doing and the running strat reduces strain on your healer. You are designed to plant and fight, that's why we have ranged taunts and no charging/intercept abilities. Again, by dropping a heal to hit after the boom goes off, you're actually reducing the healers work by staying in rather than running and not being able to heal yourself as well.
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Postby Brute » Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:14 am

Bige wrote:
Brute wrote:Yes, you can DS through the boom, and to make it easier you can definately do this. You can also LOH. But that's only two booms. In all liklihood you'll need to live through 3-4 booms before he dies. That means either 1. you get good at doing what you should be doing anyway, or 2. you put a high strain on the healers and greatly increase the chances for a wipe.


As several people have stated, the boom will only ever bring you down to 20% health, always. The boom cannot kill you. There is no need to DS a boom, there is no need to LoH a boom. The tricky part for this fight for paladins is we don't have a charge like warriors and druids to get back into melee range fast. If you get hit by the boom on the way out, you will be slow to get back in and this can likely lead to a wipe as well. In my experience, getting hit by a boom on the way out raises the risk of a wipe more than simply letting your healer know to top you up after a boom. When the boom starts, the healer doesn't need to drop a single heal because as low as your health is, it will always go to 20%. If they happen to be silenced due to the bomb effect, that's when DS and LoH should be used.

You will live through every single boom without needing to DS or LoH, it's simply a matter of being topped up afterwards. I have to disagree with the previous poster saying running in and out will help you get better at what you should be doing and the running strat reduces strain on your healer. You are designed to plant and fight, that's why we have ranged taunts and no charging/intercept abilities. Again, by dropping a heal to hit after the boom goes off, you're actually reducing the healers work by staying in rather than running and not being able to heal yourself as well.


yes you will live, but I've had a lot of wipes happen in pugs because i was killed after a boom. no its not absolutely essential that you run in and out but it does make things easier when you can do it reliably.
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Postby Everlight » Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:44 pm

Brute wrote:yes you will live, but I've had a lot of wipes happen in pugs because i was killed after a boom.


There are two reasons for that. One, pugs. Two, you have under 10k hp.

I wouldn't trust a pug healer to be on the ball enough to get heals on you straight after the boom, and nor would I consider 9.5k unbuffed hitpoints sufficient to just stand there.

Truth be told, I have never wiped as a consequence of standing in the boom, but I have wiped as a consequence of trying to run out. Your mileage may vary.
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Postby Kivan » Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:56 pm

First off, I'm quite surprised at how many of you guys kite Vorpil. If we're getting overrun by the time he's at around 10-15% then sure, I'll drag him off his pedestal and down the hallway for a bit. But during the meat of the fight? Never. Not on my first time, not on my first heroic, never. And he's never, ever been a problem.

Whether I run from a sonic boom or not depends really on whether I'm slacking. If I realise that moving away wouldn't result in a clear then I just stay where I am and eat it so I don't wipe the group by being slowed down - especially in normal mode, because I can be sure of a swift top-up. If I see the cast bar immediately then I'll scarper, just to make it easier on the healers. It's situational really, as has already been pointed out.
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Postby Belldandi » Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:42 am

I don't kit Vorpil in normal mode. Waste of time, tank him where he stands and just eat the first few VW. With Shadow res aura on it shouldn't be a big problem. You're DPS should down him by or after the first teleport. VW heals don't heal for that much. Hammer of Justice VWs that are getting close if he's almost down.

On Murmur if you're having problems with lag or not paying attention to the sonic boom, Just eat the damage and pop a healthstone/potion afterwards. Bubble yourself the next time. And a potion the 3rd time if your cooldown is up. LoH the 4th if it's still alive. Better to be close to him so he can beat on you than slowly walking back while he zaps your group with that range attack thingy.
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Postby Nidal » Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:15 pm

Well as a follow up since I'm the OP...

Went to Slabs the other night and for Vorpil I insisted on a limited kiting kill the Voids strat and it worked beautifully. Dead just after the third port.

For Murmur I insisted that we try just letting me stand in and have the healer time a heal to land just after the boom. The healer was particularly nervous as 'every tank I've ever been with runs out and in'. But we did it my way and one shot the sucker. No problem at all and the healer admitted that it was much easier as every other tank eats at least one boom because he doesn't move fast enough. He especially liked not having to worry about healing the rest of the group.

So thanks to the posters who advocated the just stand in there approach!

As an aside...it is soo nice to finally have garnered enough respect in my guild as a tank, that--I'm even getting invites to tank while on my alts, they make me leader immediately upon joining, and when I want to try something different they do it. The warlocks and mages in particular love grouping with me now--aoe ftw! Just nice to finally be getting that respect. :D (and I'm still gimp geared) :lol:
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Postby Jarenien » Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:52 pm

Kiting him S and then N is the easiest strategy in the world. I stand in front of the book and pull him. I run back about a consecrations width S and then lay down a consecration and walk backwards slowly (about 6 of the 8 seconds of consecration hit him), laying down consecrations and SoR, JoR and HS as needed. Then we teleport and I run North about 2-2.5 consecration widths and lay down a consecration and repeat what I did before when I went S. Vorpil is dead before we are halfway up the North hallway.

This is THE BEST strategy to do this guy if you are in a good group. The groups that are not so good try to tank him in place and feel the wrath of the VW as they heal Vorpil to full in seconds and explode and kill all your squishies.

I have yet to fail with this strategy. Moving while fighting is not hard at all. There are logs of fights where you have to keep moving, like Sepetra (i know i slaughtered the spelling) in mech, so consider this good practice. And don't worry about dying during a boss fight. If you die BEFORE the boss fight, then worry about you being the problem. Everyone needs to learn boss fights and it's a lot different playing a boss fight then it is hearing about how a boss fight should go.

*EDIT* -- And just to add, staying in during a Sonic Boom is not the smartest move. Running in and out is the best way and only way to do it successfully repeatedly.

*EDIT #2* -- And no I'm not trying to be an argument starter or saying the other strategies don't work at all. Just posting my opinion about what has worked for me in the past. Oh, and CONGRATULATIONS on your butt kicking of Vorpil and Murmur. :)
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Postby Bige » Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:54 pm

Jarenien wrote:*EDIT* -- And just to add, staying in during a Sonic Boom is not the smartest move. Running in and out is the best way and only way for me to do it successfully repeatedly.

*EDIT #2* -- And no I'm not trying to be an argument starter or saying the other strategies don't work at all. Just posting my opinion about what has worked for me in the past. Oh, and CONGRATULATIONS on your butt kicking of Vorpil and Murmur. :)


Fixed Edit 1 according to Edit 2. For myself and others, staying in is the only way to do it successfully repeatedly. I've yet to die a single time while staying in and have caused 3 wipes by mistiming the run.

Find the strat that works for you and go with it.
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Postby Dokb » Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:24 pm

Well, Vorpil is about dps. You kite if you need to. I usualy move a bit when I do him in héroic and notice I need to avoid the blue guys.

As for Murmur, in normal you can manage taking the explosion, in heroic you can't. He does a voley type aoe all the time outside the explosion. So the group has to move in and out all the time. A moving healer won't heal you after an explosion, so you can't afford to take it. You'd better train in normal if you consider doing him in heroic.
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Postby Lorath » Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:09 am

I usually do a kiting variant on Heroic Vorpil but I must agree the zergnuke is easier in normal mode. Kiting is stupid and he will get some heals from the blobs :/ but in Heroic it's alot of dps lost if you try to terminate them, too much dps probably.

On Murmur I run in/out both modes and can't really remember wiping on him... I can recommend LittleWigs. (bossmod for instances, functions just like BigWigs) You'll get a nice warning when he booms. :)

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