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[25] Gothik

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[25] Gothik

Postby Aranon » Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:28 pm

Hey guys and gals.

We hit up Gothik last night after clearing Spider, Plague and Raz and had some serious issues. I think it was just a DPS balance problem (and our warrior tank failing on taking care of the live side on his own.)

I'll post my WWS when I get back home, but I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for Gothik. We were running with:

Live side:
Warrior tank
2 tank healers, 1 raid healer

Dead side:
2 pally tanks
2 tank healers, 2 raid healers

DPS split fairly evenly.

At first we were having the live side get run over. I swapped over to help tank live side and eventually the dead side was overrun. Aside from positioning in corners, what do you suggest?
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Postby Eroslight » Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:45 pm

This is what has worked for me in the past few weeks with only 1 wipe the very first time.

All melee go to the dead side with one tank (The DK's can tank in a pinch not that you'd need it with a pally tank.) Fear as much as you need and stunlock the riders.

All the ranged go to the living side hopefully with 2 tanks. The warrior gets the riders, the pally gets the knights. Put the mages (we run with 2-3 and they have no troubles) on the little dudes, and try not to kill every mob at the same time on the live side (so focus fire or mass /assisting a mage).

Communicate alot in vent, the dead side cannot be overloaded with mobs, so we usually add 1 or 2 ranged people over there to tip the DPS scales AND we start CCing/ stopping DPS if they are having troubles.

The hardest thing for pallys is to get them off of the healers and keeping your aggro hungry dps alive. I have all the ranged group up right where the gates would meet so all the mobs converge on them naturally.

I hope this helps, let us know how it goes next time.
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Postby Kynes » Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:54 pm

Casters Living side, Melee Dead side, split the hunters to where they're needed.

1 tank per side, preferably a paladin for dead (ranged snap aggro options).

As mentioned above, if you are uneven on dps, put more on the UD side. If they get overwhelmed, it's gg and the living side just seems easier to roflstomp.

Afk till loot.
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Postby Aranon » Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:55 pm

Don't know if this is of any use, but here's our WMO parse:

http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/log/313968
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Postby Aranon » Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:11 pm

Had another few attempts on him last night. Put all melee on the dead side (+1 ranged for more balanced DPS) and all ranged on the live side. Our warrior couldn't handle getting everything on the live side and healers started dying. Dead side was fine.

So I moved over to the live side again to help the tank there. It went very well on the live side and dead eventually got overrun.

We were short on heals last night. I only brought 6 and 2-3 of those were our bads. I'm not sure that healing would have solved the issue except maybe that last attempt where the dead side got overrun. If we could have a DK in DPS gear offtanking 1-2 without dropping that might work.

Am I going to have to 4 tank this fight?

We're having no problems with anything else in Naxx, but this fight has caused us a few headaches. Here's the group breakdown from last night. DPS numbers are for overall before the pull (had done Plague + Raz)

Live:
Hunter - 2704 DPS
Lock - 2500
Ele shaman - 2121
Ele shaman - 1948
Hunter - 2037
Lock - 2226
Lock - 1919
Mage - 1831
Mage - 1520
Warrior tank
Pally, shaman, disc priest heals

Live DPS - 18806

Dead:
Ret - 2752
DK - 2139
Pally tank - 1928
Rogue - 2149
Rogue - 2032
DK - 1935
Pally tank - 1587
Enhance - 1545
Shad Priest - 3475
Pally, shaman, holy priest heals

Dead DPS - 19542

Let me know if you have any suggestions. My next thought is to either 4 tank it or stack a couple more DPS on dead side with an extra healer.
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Postby Kelaan » Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:42 pm

I thought I'd chime in with my experience last night. First time we'd been there, so we clearly have some learning to do, but I was tasked with tanking the live side spawns. I had a really hard time picking them up, later in the fight -- it wasn't until we had some extra AOE near my consecrate (Death and decay, etc) that things seemed to stick. At that point, our problem was killing things too fast, and overwhelming the dead side. :(

I've read that dead side spawns are immune to many spells; do Consecrate/Holy Wrath/Shield work on them? Is it notably different on dead side? I'm assuming they're all undead, whereas live has some humanoids, which would hopefully let exorcism and holy wrath pick them up more easily. Not being raid leader, it's not really my call, but I'm curious if there's some constructive advice I can bring back for next week. :)
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Postby Petrus » Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:14 pm

Generally even on 25 the tiny adds just have to be killed by dps, if you try to tank them they die before you get a second swing in. Our TG warriors do a good job of smacking the mobs first, as they don't hit plate very hard at all. If any of them runs for a healer, a quick taunt will keep the mob off of them long enough for the dps to go kill it.

If you're having problems tanking things live-side, put the extra tank there instead of deadside. Paladins work better deadside with exorcism available. Between Exorcism, AS, and Judgement, I can generally pick up almost everything but I always get all the larger mobs (DKs and rider/horses).
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Postby Maat » Sat Dec 13, 2008 2:02 am

Kelaan wrote:I thought I'd chime in with my experience last night. First time we'd been there, so we clearly have some learning to do, but I was tasked with tanking the live side spawns. I had a really hard time picking them up, later in the fight -- it wasn't until we had some extra AOE near my consecrate (Death and decay, etc) that things seemed to stick. At that point, our problem was killing things too fast, and overwhelming the dead side. :(

I've read that dead side spawns are immune to many spells; do Consecrate/Holy Wrath/Shield work on them? Is it notably different on dead side? I'm assuming they're all undead, whereas live has some humanoids, which would hopefully let exorcism and holy wrath pick them up more easily. Not being raid leader, it's not really my call, but I'm curious if there's some constructive advice I can bring back for next week. :)


When I tanked live side I made my healers/dps stack up in that left corner and dump my consecrate on the spawn platform closest. Usually picked up everything from consecrate aggro that way.

But yeah pallies are much better tanking undead side (the stuff on live side dies super-fast anyway). Casters can dps the undead just fine as far as I've seen, I actually put most of the melee on live side and most ranged on undead in 10-man to ease the healing strain by the ghost aoe.
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Postby elson » Sat Dec 13, 2008 11:55 pm

Tried this with a half pug tonight and It didn't go so well. Got close to beating the waves but not quite.

Had a warrior and pally tank on live side. Me on the undead side

Had the undead side group up near the gate and tried to catch what i could with consecration down to pick up anything I missed. Problem was we just had a lot of trigger happy aoe dps and there wasn't much I could do to keep things off them as knights/riders came in.

Things went fine until about 30-40 seconds till gothik comes and undead side just kept getting overrrun. Am I correct that live side should have a bit less dps/and perhaps have more of the casters than the dead side? Seemed like the dead side needed more focus fire than aoe imo.

Also, for positioning? I read some of you guys put your group in the corner clumped together? How do you deal with the aoe dmg and whirlwinds etc? Or do the whirlwinds not happen on undead side?
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Postby Maat » Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:44 am

Well, there are 4 types of mobs on undead side as you should know, ghosts, death knights, and rider + horses.

The ghosts you don't even need to tank, they do a crappy little aoe that hits a wide radius. If you can grab aggro on them, that's great so that your aoe dps can burn them down.

What you need to pay the most attention to is the timer on your bossmod telling you when a death knight or rider spawns on live, and listen to vent when each dies (the live side tank should be calling out when the riders die, at least), because those are your priority to be tanked. So save a taunt/exo/shield toss etc. for them.

If nothing else, I think the death knights and ghosts can be CCed, but it shouldn't be necessary.

I clump up my ranged so that newly-spawned things are all running in the same direction. 'course have to keep an eye out if something spawns on the bone pile they're standing on. It's not a huge deal though, since you can see where each mob is going to spawn.
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Postby Kelaan » Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:42 am

I think one of the hardest things we faced was live side killing things too quickly. This week, if I'm not sick, I'll see if I can tank dead side.
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Postby Nalyn » Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:45 pm

Kelaan wrote:I think one of the hardest things we faced was live side killing things too quickly. This week, if I'm not sick, I'll see if I can tank dead side.


This, live side dps needs to understand the meaning of the word STOP, and do it as soon as its called, even if it means they stand there with their thumb up their rear for 10, 15, 20+ seconds, to give the undead side a chance to catch up. I screwed up the dps split on our last 25 man kill, but won't next time, as others have said, stack all your melees, your pally tank(s) on the dead side, your casters on the live side, your hunters on whichever to complete the balance, if you have an extra dps or two, throw them on the undead side. This is one of those fights that's actually a bit trickier to execute in the 25 man, than the 10 man.
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Postby Aranon » Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:29 pm

We got him last night in one shot. It just took learning the balance.

Since our DPS was just trigger happy on the live side, I stacked the dead side so that live could go as nuts as they wanted to and still kill things at a reasonable pace. That meant putting all melee plus our three "big guns" over on the dead side. This left the live side a little under-handed and with an extra healer. It worked just fine.

Going back tonight with overall less DPS. We'll see how it goes.
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Postby Kelaan » Thu Dec 18, 2008 5:17 pm

Out of curiosity, what happens if you have NO ONE on dead side, and everyone on live? Does he only swap sides at %health, or is it on a timer? Will the dead stuff come through the gate if they have no targets? Could you just have several tanks (and aoe/etc) there to pick things up?

I mean, it's clearly not a good idea (or people would be doing it), but I'm curious as to why. :)
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Postby Enkal » Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:09 am

With noone alive on the dead side (pun not intended) the gates will open automatically. Probably when he teleports down.
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