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[10] Sartharion with 3 drakes

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Postby Falibard » Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:45 am

Eender wrote:The way we do it is I tank the drakes, whelps, and fire guys. I don't wear any FR/SR at all. Also, we run 2 healers and have a DK tank Sarth. As far as the tank for down below it is anyone who isn't cloth and have a DPS that can heal as well (Ele Sham/Boomkin) spot heal as necessary. Either that or run a Holy Pala up top and send second healer down below (although this is incredibly dangerous as tanks are likely to spike during this time).


Have you successfully killed Sarth with 3 adds this way?
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Postby PsiVen » Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:26 am

A DK is certainly the best suited to tank Sarth, and I think one might be best for the adds as well.

Bottom line, if you only use two tanks, the guy on drake+add duty is going to be having one unholy hell of a time. We did many attempts on this last night with DK+Pal, Priest+Pal with offspec healing in the portal phases. Positioning to pick up whelps is crucial and about 25% of the time it's impossible for Consecration to get them cleanly because of a bad lava wall. When Vesperon comes out, adds are still giving the healers hell.

Without the perfect composition, it's just like waiting for the stars to align. I think making sure that adds are dealt with and then worrying about the DPS checks is going to be more productive than repeatedly wiping because you "need" 6 DPS.


By the way, if you're tanking 3 drakes at once you're doing something terribly wrong. There should only be a very limited time that Tenebron is up with Shadron, and then you'll have Shadron+Vesperon without the shadow debuff doubling their breaths. SR gear is a bad idea, most of the damage will be physical and you lose tons of stats downgrading to BT stuff.

Valsh wrote:We did this tonight by skipping all portals until shadron was dead, and keeping our druid up with a barkskin, BoS, Guardian spirit, Bos rotation, i can't believe how trivial that made the fight. (A bit random, but still easy none the less)


This actually sounds like the best way to approach it, simplifying all of the difficulties inherent in using 2 tanks and 2 healers.
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Postby Valsh » Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:39 am

PsiVen wrote:A DK is certainly the best suited to tank Sarth, and I think one might be best for the adds as well.

Bottom line, if you only use two tanks, the guy on drake+add duty is going to be having one unholy hell of a time. We did many attempts on this last night with DK+Pal, Priest+Pal with offspec healing in the portal phases. Positioning to pick up whelps is crucial and about 25% of the time it's impossible for Consecration to get them cleanly because of a bad lava wall. When Vesperon comes out, adds are still giving the healers hell.

Without the perfect composition, it's just like waiting for the stars to align. I think making sure that adds are dealt with and then worrying about the DPS checks is going to be more productive than repeatedly wiping because you "need" 6 DPS.


By the way, if you're tanking 3 drakes at once you're doing something terribly wrong. There should only be a very limited time that Tenebron is up with Shadron, and then you'll have Shadron+Vesperon without the shadow debuff doubling their breaths. SR gear is a bad idea, most of the damage will be physical and you lose tons of stats downgrading to BT stuff.


We've been taking him down with Druid MT + Warrior OT. Warrior thunderclaps while the whelps come out and the whelps/blazes disappear under AoE/Cleave damage. Blazes were generally just dragged onto me + the warrior and killed with whirlwind/Divine storm. The only problems i have with this is the ridiculously small hitbox on the drakes =/
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Postby Splug » Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:44 am

Yeah, at most there will be two drakes active at any time; otherwise you're just going to fall behind and be overrun. However, it is possible that whelps will still be floating around when Vesperon lands, depending on your damage priorities. So 3x breath explosion is not a real scenario; if you hit that, you're doomed anyway.

Also, spell reflect doesn't help. The breath attacks are not single-target, and thus pass through spell reflect. Anti-magic shell will help once per 60 seconds.

Psi - I believe that paladins will take less damage working the adds due to block value being more effective on small-hitters, and the cloud of whelps/elementals chewing through bone shield charges very quickly. However, it also seems reasonable that dropping a long-range death and decay will make gathering everything easier, especially the whelps. It does take some getting accustomed to the timing interlock on DnD/pestilence/rune cooldowns relative to when adds are landing, and Tenebron threat suffers as a result. But overall I'd say deathknights grabbing adds is probably easier just due to larger range on pickup spells.

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Postby Gaffer » Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:50 am

PsiVen wrote:Without the perfect composition, it's just like waiting for the stars to align. I think making sure that adds are dealt with and then worrying about the DPS checks is going to be more productive than repeatedly wiping because you "need" 6 DPS.


You don't need 6 DPS. World first by Method was run with 2 Tanks (Druid, Warrior) and 3 Healers (Paladin, Priest, Priest). We scored our first kill with 3 Tanks (Paladin, Druid, Deathknight) and 2 Healers (Paladin, Druid) (WWS for reference: http://wowwebstats.com/ic2abow31nmay?s=165035-199489). The only true DPS check is getting Tenebron down before a second set of whelps spawn and Vesperon spawns.

PsiVen wrote:This actually sounds like the best way to approach it, simplifying all of the difficulties inherent in using 2 tanks and 2 healers.


We found it to work best for us, too. Just be prepared to deal with significant raid damage. We had our Elemental Shaman off spec heal during this time, though with a CoH Priest, you might be able to just deal with it.
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Postby Falibard » Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:40 pm

I suppose I didn't understand the mechanic of multiple drakes then. I was under the impression that all the drakes came down at about the same time. Based on what I'm reading here I'm guessing you have like a minute between them?
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Postby PsiVen » Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:55 pm

Tenebron lands in the west about 15 seconds into the pull.
Shadron lands in the south about 45 seconds later.
Vesperon lands in the north after another 45 seconds (IIRC).

It looks something like this:

0:00 Sarth pulled
0:15 Tenebron active
0:45 Whelps spawn
1:00 Shadron active
1:15 More whelps spawn if Tenebron isn't dead -> probably a wipe
1:45 Vesperon active
2:00 Vesperon Disciple active -> MT starts needing serious cooldowns
2:20~ Disciple dead, if you're killing it -> MT is safe for now
2:50~ Shadron dead, if you're killing him -> MT is safe

Whenever Shadron AND Vesperon's Disciple are up, the MT will die from an unmitigated breath.
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Postby Eender » Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:10 pm

Falibard wrote:
Eender wrote:The way we do it is I tank the drakes, whelps, and fire guys. I don't wear any FR/SR at all. Also, we run 2 healers and have a DK tank Sarth. As far as the tank for down below it is anyone who isn't cloth and have a DPS that can heal as well (Ele Sham/Boomkin) spot heal as necessary. Either that or run a Holy Pala up top and send second healer down below (although this is incredibly dangerous as tanks are likely to spike during this time).


Have you successfully killed Sarth with 3 adds this way?


Watch the video I posted and you would see that I have. I'm not saying it is easy. It's probably the most challenging tanking encounter I have participated in to date. It's doable tho.
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Postby Nness » Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:19 pm

Players will now be affected by Twilight Residue when they leave the Twilight Realm. Twilight Residue grants immunity to Fire and Shadow damage for a few seconds.

From 3.0.4 patch notes.

Feel like we can expect some different strategy other than kill shadron without enter twilight realm.

Twilight torment applied when vesperon acolyte is left up for a while. With twilight residue we don't really have to worry about fire wall. So after vesperon come out. Send a small group into twilight realm kill acolyte avoid twilight torment buff. That will make group without DK tank some possibility to finish this encounter.

I don't think we suppose to take unmitigated damage while twilight torment and 100% fire debuff is up at same time.
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Postby Elsie » Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:02 pm

Nness wrote:Players will now be affected by Twilight Residue when they leave the Twilight Realm. Twilight Residue grants immunity to Fire and Shadow damage for a few seconds.

From 3.0.4 patch notes.

Feel like we can expect some different strategy other than kill shadron without enter twilight realm.

Twilight torment applied when vesperon acolyte is left up for a while. With twilight residue we don't really have to worry about fire wall. So after vesperon come out. Send a small group into twilight realm kill acolyte avoid twilight torment buff. That will make group without DK tank some possibility to finish this encounter.

I don't think we suppose to take unmitigated damage while twilight torment and 100% fire debuff is up at same time.


It would be rather hilarious if breathe were on a consistent enough timer to do a taunt-absorb-taunt on the breathes.
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Postby ozweepay » Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:21 pm

For those of you who've done Sarth10 plus 3, are there any classes you deem MANDATORY for this fight? Seems like it hasn't been done without a DK tank?

Although Pain Supp has been mentioned repeatedly, I haven't seen many groups with a disc priest (holy priests are nice for guardian spirit, ofc). Pally tanks seem to be common as well, but of course people who don't run with one probably aren't following these forums.

We got Sarth25+3 last week and some of us more masochistic types are thinking to try the 10man version since everything else is on farm now.
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Postby Gaffer » Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:05 pm

I would say a Holy Paladin is really the cornerstone class. You can probably get by without one, but I wouldn't want to try and everyone who I've spoken with that's also completed the encounter used one. Beacon and spam Holy Light is just incredible here.

It can be done without a Deathknight tank (search Method Sartharion on Warcraft Movies), but a Deathknight makes dealing with breaths easier. Things like Guardian Spirit, Shield Wall, Hand of Sacrifice + Bubble, Gorilla pet sacrifice (name escapes me), etc can all be used to deal with breaths on a Twilight Torment tank.

And, yeah, you're bound to see more paladin tanks talking here than others :)
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Postby Scrawn » Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:04 pm

What I want to know is about the portals:

Tenebron: Ignore and pick up the adds afterwards

Shadron: Puts up a shield on himself(?) and Sarth(?) until the shadow is killed

Vesperon: ?

Are other portals worth skipping? Or are they mandatory
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Postby Morganim » Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:00 am

We've been having a go at this last few nights due to lack of people for 25 3 drakes. But we've been running into a few problems

We are using

Feral Druid (sarth)
Prot Pally
Holy Pally
Holy Priest
Mage
Spriest
Enhance Sham
Rogue
MM Hunter
Unholy DK

Its not ideal but its what we have to work with atm, the guild is seriously lacking healers and tanks, the druid is cat spec primarily so the 25 man gear is dps based so only has about 40k raid buffed when using 10 man tank gear. I could bring in a prot warrior whos 25 man geared but then we loose motw

Dps wise we are able to get tenebron down before the 2nd portal with and without lust now, so we will probably look to use the lust on shadron so that there are less chances of 1 shotting the feral, as from what i can tell it only happens when both 2nd and 3rd dragons are up.

Couple things im curious about that i dont fully understand.
The times when the MT becomes '1 shottable' by the breath, is it a buff on sarth or is a debuff on the mt that gives all the extra damage, trying to work out when we need to use the damage reduction effects as all our DK's are dps with only blue tanking gear :(

Second, how are you guys picking up all the fire elementals im finding sometimes taunt + frisbee are on CD and i have nothing to grab them off healers beside the DK death gripping them into consecrate. The whelps seem to move in fine with judgment of light.

Also on a lot of the videos the adds seem to be low at all times, where as we are getting over run until tenebron dies and we go for the all out aoe, would it be the case that i should get in a fury warrior or ret paladin for the constant aoe?
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Postby praetorae » Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:06 am

Managed the +1 drake version last night, hoping for+2 drakes next week. One thing I found helpful though, if your having problems picking up the whelps that spawn from the portal (if your ignoring portals that is) a rogue using 'Tricks of the Trade' and 'Fan of Knives' works perfectly.

Every whelp every single time was MD'ed to me and my consecrate while I tanked the drake and then it was mass AOE time.

Hope this helps a few people and stops those squishy healers being killed ;)
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