Shield Spec and Redoubt

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Shield Spec and Redoubt

Postby Brittin » Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:09 am

Am I just crazy or would anyone else like to see the link between these two gone?

Shield spec is worth it, but after your uncrushable Redoubt is only of help in the 1 second gap between holy shields. And then only 10% of that time... maybe.

Id rather spend my 5 pts somewhere else. Maybe on getting Crusade / Sanctity Aura.
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Re: Shield Spec and Redoubt

Postby Nerra » Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:34 am

Brittin wrote:Am I just crazy or would anyone else like to see the link between these two gone?

Shield spec is worth it, but after your uncrushable Redoubt is only of help in the 1 second gap between holy shields. And then only 10% of that time... maybe.

Id rather spend my 5 pts somewhere else. Maybe on getting Crusade / Sanctity Aura.


Shield spec can go imo. but redoubt saved my ass more times than not.
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Re: Shield Spec and Redoubt

Postby Vencedor » Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:55 am

Nerra wrote:
Brittin wrote:Am I just crazy or would anyone else like to see the link between these two gone?

Shield spec is worth it, but after your uncrushable Redoubt is only of help in the 1 second gap between holy shields. And then only 10% of that time... maybe.

Id rather spend my 5 pts somewhere else. Maybe on getting Crusade / Sanctity Aura.


Shield spec can go imo. but redoubt saved my ass more times than not.


Other way around, my friend.
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Re: Shield Spec and Redoubt

Postby Nerra » Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:05 am

Vencedor wrote:Other way around, my friend.


hmmm, just went through the math again, you might be right. might have to put those 3 points back into it.
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Postby Madmordigan » Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:06 am

I'd like Redoubt MUCH more if it's charges weren't burned along with holy shield once you are past 102.4 (incl holy shield up).

Shield spec is worth all 8 points though, imo :)
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Postby Worldie » Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:18 am

Even without considering that Shield Spec is worth those 8 points, Redoubt is your lifesaver while AoE tanking, since 6+ mobs easily eat your 8 Holy Shield charges, and if Redoubt procs anywhere during those 8 charges u'll have at least 1 more block (multiple procs of Reckoning are common anyway when constantly hit).
Also it can save your ass in that short time between when you press HS button and when it actually goes on, since if you have Redoubt up, u'll still be uncrushable in that small window.

Anyway, still better than that 400 extra armor which aren't going anywhere.
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Postby Ralthos » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:29 pm

I definitely want those 5 points back from Redoubt.
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Postby Tiandelin » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:44 pm

Worldie wrote:Even without considering that Shield Spec is worth those 8 points, Redoubt is your lifesaver while AoE tanking, since 6+ mobs easily eat your 8 Holy Shield charges, and if Redoubt procs anywhere during those 8 charges u'll have at least 1 more block (multiple procs of Reckoning are common anyway when constantly hit).
Also it can save your ass in that short time between when you press HS button and when it actually goes on, since if you have Redoubt up, u'll still be uncrushable in that small window.

Anyway, still better than that 400 extra armor which aren't going anywhere.


QFT. I think that a lot of people who complain about Redoubt don't consider how useful it is in an AoE tanking situation. I don't have the math handy, but I recall hearing that it's up roughly 41% of the time if there are enough incoming hits to burn through it before the duration runs out. That's a significant amount of mitigation if you can block most of a hit.

That said, it becomes less and less useful the more block rating you have since some of that 30% will be pushed off the hit table (at 46% base block chance in my block set, it gives the equivalent of maybe 7% average block now). Kinda like how reckoning becomes less useful if you have more avoidance. It's sad how we have talents that grow weaker as we gear up.
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Postby Brittin » Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:39 pm

Tiandelin wrote:
Worldie wrote:Even without considering that Shield Spec is worth those 8 points, Redoubt is your lifesaver while AoE tanking, since 6+ mobs easily eat your 8 Holy Shield charges, and if Redoubt procs anywhere during those 8 charges u'll have at least 1 more block (multiple procs of Reckoning are common anyway when constantly hit).
Also it can save your ass in that short time between when you press HS button and when it actually goes on, since if you have Redoubt up, u'll still be uncrushable in that small window.

Anyway, still better than that 400 extra armor which aren't going anywhere.


QFT. I think that a lot of people who complain about Redoubt don't consider how useful it is in an AoE tanking situation. I don't have the math handy, but I recall hearing that it's up roughly 41% of the time if there are enough incoming hits to burn through it before the duration runs out. That's a significant amount of mitigation if you can block most of a hit.

That said, it becomes less and less useful the more block rating you have since some of that 30% will be pushed off the hit table (at 46% base block chance in my block set, it gives the equivalent of maybe 7% average block now). Kinda like how reckoning becomes less useful if you have more avoidance. It's sad how we have talents that grow weaker as we gear up.


This is actually my point. At some instance you have enough avoidance that the 5 pts in redoubt becomes questionable.

As for 400 armor... cuz thats just... silly... thats why Crusade was mentioned and not improved devo (does anyone actually get devo?)
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Postby Ralthos » Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:43 pm

Actually, what's funny is that Redoubt also gets worse as your block value goes up. It only procs if you take damage, which means that Redoubt is worthless to me outside of instances/raids. Hell, even in some instances I get full blocks against trash.
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Postby Mithos » Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:38 pm

Redoubt does nothing for single target tanking when you are uncrushable, unless you get all 8 HS charges burned. It's an aoe tank/solo/pvp tool. It's better than Imp Devlol aura anyway, no reason to pick imp devo over this.
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