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[10] Sartharion +1

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[10] Sartharion +1

Postby Falibard » Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:10 am

Which add are you guys leaving up and what is your method of dealing with the add?

We attempted it last night leaving up the add that has the -25% health debuff (don't recall the name atm) and the idea was that when that spawn I would tank it and Sarth so that all the breath damage was being faced away from the raid. Each time I was blowing all my cooldowns just to stay alive while people went in the portal, and as soon as they fell off I would get rolfstomped. We were using 2 healers, bear OT (in dps gear) then 3 melee and 3 ranged.

It seems to me that +100 fire/shadow damage would be far more manageable. Sure, it would be a bit of huge burst damage, but it seemed like the breath attacks were fewer than the hard hitting melee. The only shadow damage being done is from the ground lazor pillar things, yes? But then we'd have to deal with eggs?
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Re: [10] Sartharion +1

Postby Valsh » Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:04 am

Falibard wrote:Which add are you guys leaving up and what is your method of dealing with the add?

We attempted it last night leaving up the add that has the -25% health debuff (don't recall the name atm) and the idea was that when that spawn I would tank it and Sarth so that all the breath damage was being faced away from the raid. Each time I was blowing all my cooldowns just to stay alive while people went in the portal, and as soon as they fell off I would get rolfstomped. We were using 2 healers, bear OT (in dps gear) then 3 melee and 3 ranged.

It seems to me that +100 fire/shadow damage would be far more manageable. Sure, it would be a bit of huge burst damage, but it seemed like the breath attacks were fewer than the hard hitting melee. The only shadow damage being done is from the ground lazor pillar things, yes? But then we'd have to deal with eggs?


If i was going to run just one add, personally i'd blow heroism/bloodlust and burn it down. Can use a cooldown rotation to ensure the MT survives the breaths(Guardian spirit, BoS, barkskin, Anti-magic Shell, Shieldwall) etc etc. Come to think of it, without the +100% fire debuff the breath shouldn't even be lethal.
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Postby Splug » Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:44 pm

If you intend to run with one tank, Vesperon (-25% health debuff, portals cause twilight torment) is probably the easiest to manage. If you use two tanks, I'd recommend Tenebron (+100% shadow damage taken debuff, portals spawn whelps) as the drake to leave up. Your damage can completely ignore the portals and whelps until Tenebron is dead, and just let the offtank deal with everything.

(Yes, being said offtank gets pretty rough, but it can be done.)

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Postby Falibard » Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:56 pm

Splug wrote:If you intend to run with one tank, Vesperon (-25% health debuff, portals cause twilight torment) is probably the easiest to manage. If you use two tanks, I'd recommend Tenebron (+100% shadow damage taken debuff, portals spawn whelps) as the drake to leave up. Your damage can completely ignore the portals and whelps until Tenebron is dead, and just let the offtank deal with everything.

(Yes, being said offtank gets pretty rough, but it can be done.)

-Splug


Hmm, the later sounds like a good idea. Well, I guess that really depends on how many whelps we're talking about.
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Postby Splug » Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:20 pm

The whelps hatch in groups of 4-6 per portal. You should not get more than two portals (and ideally, the goal is to kill Tenebron before the second).

It's worth noting the whelps do stack a -% armor debuff.

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Postby Falibard » Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:54 am

Splug wrote:The whelps hatch in groups of 4-6 per portal. You should not get more than two portals (and ideally, the goal is to kill Tenebron before the second).

It's worth noting the whelps do stack a -% armor debuff.

-Splug


BV ftw. Since I was already saved to a 10 man Sarth this week tried this in my guild's 25 man with great success. I took care of gathering up the adds, which got a little hairy at one point, but whelps hit for 1800-2000 physical and raid buffed with my libram up my BV was a little over 1800 so the damage I was taking was negligible til the second portal came around. With more gear ups and having successfully done it once, I'm sure it'll go much easier the next time.

In the 25 man environment, while I was able to do it by myself, I'd recommend using two tanks for the adds during that phase, or at least have a DK pull the far away guys into your pile. The damage wasn't an issue but the adds were all over the place which made it very difficult to pick them up/get them off healer, etc. The tank on Sarth was attracting a lot of the flame adds to him and I didn't want to taunt for fear of grabbing the boss too. :roll:

Long story short, Tenebron way easier to deal with than Vesperon.
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Postby Nness » Sat Dec 13, 2008 6:53 pm

Falibard wrote:Long story short, Tenebron way easier to deal with than Vesperon.


I think it depends on your group. With good communication even 7~8 people can finish 10 man sartharion with Vesperon up.

Key for vesperon is how you communicate between dps inside realm and people who stay outside. As long as dps doesn't hit by firewall after they finish off mobs inside realm it is much easier than Tenebron.

Tenebron need gear. Tank and DPS. It's just gear check. Vesperon is group communication check.
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Postby Dimitry » Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:50 am

Good thread, thanks for the insight and to the OP for asking. I just led a Sartharion-10 this weekend, going to try to make it a regular thing. I'm thinking we'll try it next with Vesperon up.
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Postby Eroslight » Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:06 pm

I just tried it with Vesperon up with 1 tank (me), 2 healers and 8 DPS.

We were running into issues as soon as the drake landed. As a quick check we had Sarth down to 35% when the drake landed.

I'm just not sure what to do. I guess bring a 3rd healer or an Ele or Boomkin to help Off heal.

We ran into these troubles:
Once the drake landed and the portal came we either A) died in the portal or B) died getting out of the portal usually by a wall of fire.

Things just got so hectic with the DPS having to worry about the adds, walls of fire, portals, and shadow fizzures. The healers were trying to heal everybody BUT usually the fire wall was the thing that killed us most since most were focusing on other things.

Where do you guys usually tank him? Our melee kept having to run back to the ranged and then back into melee range if a wall came


We tried:
a DK OTing the drake and everybody burning him down whilst still hopping in the portal and killing

Led to: people dying in the portals, or tanks dying once a healer went down in the portal or people dying to fire wall coming out of the portal.
(probably a communication issue)
Tried:
me tanking both drake and sarth and doing what I described above.

Led to:
Melee getting clev'd or fire walled or fire breathed, fire walls were an issue again.

Tried:
Me tanking both and burning sarth down.

Led to; Drake enraging and 1 shotting me for 36k (with the -25% debuff i was at like 25k health = not fun).

Anybody have any ideas or tips on where to position him?
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Postby Falibard » Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:46 pm

Well, we've heard it both ways but I'll give you my opinion again. I would try Tenebron first over Vesperon for two reasons: -25% health is rough on a tank because it makes those breaths hit for about half your health, and you don't have to worry about the portal.

Tenebron's adds are fairly trivial and could likely be tanked by your OT Deathknight. The other option would be to have you tank the adds as you'd be the best aoe tank, your BV makes their hits trivial, and JoL is a nice, passive "third healer" when the add is up. Again, just my opinion.
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Postby Nness » Mon Dec 15, 2008 4:43 pm

With vesperon up. You need at least one melee dps on fire elemental duty while other dps run into realm. Normally DPS warrior or ret paladin take this place. They need serious heal if fire elemental not go down fast.

For group inside realm. You need a offtank which can take hit. Hunter's pet is good choice if you short on tank. Or ask DPS warrior switch to defense stance and take his shield out. While killing adds inside realm. DPS need to make sure stop their dps when Acolyte's hp down to 10~15% HP. And ask outside see if there is firewall on going. If it's clear, Kill Acolyte fast and get out of the realm. PS: Elemental shaman, Ret pally probably can off heal inside realm.

If you are first time to deal with vesperon up. I would suggest bring two tank with you. So second tank can take care of drake and fire elemental duty. Make healer less stress.

For vesperon. It's not DPS race. You need good coordinate and good communication. Assign job at start of fight. Make your member less confuse.

Also what we talking here is all strategy. For where main tank position and off tank position. How to make more space for DPS and healer to run around. Those position problem you need watch some video. See how other people doing this. Better position make this fight much easier.
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Postby Splug » Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:20 am

Tenebron is a damage race, with some tank pickup complexity; if the drake is not dead before the second whelp hatch, the damage intake gets fairly high.

Shadron tests your main tank's health pool, and your raid's ability to rotate cooldowns to keep him alive.

Vesperon is an endurace check. Either you have to go through the portal and invest prescious time killing the disciples while taking twilight shift damage, or you need to have damage be careful not to kill themselves from twilight torment backlash while the healers just keep everyone alive outside. Both methods seem effective, and either way it will especially tax healer manapools.

I don't see any reason to bother with Tenebron's eggs, but either killing or ignoring the disciples while fighting the drakes seems to work equally well. Either way, it is essential that everyone knows the plan in advance and reacts to the portal coming up accordingly.

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Postby Nness » Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:18 pm

Just did Vesperon up last night. Few more information about that drake.

Few sec after he open twilight realm. Acolyte will apply Twilight Torment to people who stay outside. And apply Twilight shift to people who enter twilight realm.

If you running this with two healer only. You need send a DPS spec hybrid class into realm to do off heal. If you try to kill vesperon without enter realm. Just be careful don't kill yourself.
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Postby Rhiannon » Fri Dec 19, 2008 9:56 am

Just so I can get this clear in my head:

If attempting to kill Sartharion with just Tenebron up, and with two tanks, what's the simplest way to assign tanking duties?

Obviously one tank on Sartharion. That leaves 3 other tanking duties: tanking Tenebron, tanking Tenebron's whelps, and tanking the fire elementals that spawn. Should/can the second tank perform all three of those roles? Or should the Sartharion tank also tank Tenebron?

One tank on Sartharion + Tenebron, one tank on whelps + elementals - a lot of damage going into the Sartharion tank, melee will have issues getting in to DPS Tenebron without getting hit by Sartharion's cleave. I don't know if this way is even possible.

One tank on Sartharion, one tank on Tenebron + whelps + elementals - seems that jumping around to pick up all the adds while tanking Tenebron could lead to him breathing all over the raid, and missed adds etc. Or is the idea being to have him almost dead by the time the whelps hatch for the first time? Or alternatively have one tank on Sartharion, one on Tenebron, and try to aoe zerg down the adds with ret pala/dps warr etc?

So which of these would be recommended?
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Postby Smartos » Fri Dec 19, 2008 3:28 pm

We always do it with Shadron alive. It might be a little bit more difficult than the other two dragons, but it's also pretty easy if your raid is intelligent enough to move out of the waves. When Shadron lands, we completely ignore the portals until he's dead. The other tank, whoever it is, takes Sartharion and I take Shadron and the little fire elementals. Shadron is nuked down, then the portal mob is killed and after that, Sartharion is a joke.
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