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Mana Conservation in Heroics

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, theckhd

Postby Belarkan » Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:52 am

7.) Spiritual Attunement Glyph


7) not a very good glyph


I disagree here.
Moving from 10% to 12% is 20% more to SA.
Sounds pretty good.

On your mana issues, you should make your own opinion and learn how to deal with.
I didn't have much mana issue back in BC even while outgearing the content. LK changes have made things even easier.
Stop spamming brainlessly abilities, just keep the bare minimum threat to keep the aggro, use and abuse wisdom, have a look at the threat per mana of your abilities to name a few.
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Postby trellian » Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:52 am

Threatco wrote:14.) /sit to take hits so you can get some heals and SA mana.


I prefer butt tanking ;)
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Postby Erendis » Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:41 am

There are 2 solutions:

1. Pull More.
2. Hit "X" untill your mana refills.

That's the way it has always been.
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Postby alayire » Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:51 am

HinataDestiny wrote:
Fridmarr wrote:I stop using holy shield, blocking right now removes enough damage from the hit, that the BoSanc proc returns less mana than if I was just healed for the additional blocked damage. So when you remove the cost of casting holy shield on top of that, it's a pretty good gain.

If the damage is high enough I feel like I need to use holy shield, then I'm probably not having mana problems.


flaw here is if you block 8 times in that 10 second period your going to get back 16% of your mana Holy Shield doesn't cost nearly that much
you missunderstood him.
what he sayd is that if you block a hit, with the current Block Value that we run nowadays vs the average 5Man elite does, the damage intake will be significantly smaller, hence very litle mana gained via SA.
for example a 1500 BV means 150 mana lost via SA vs 2% mana gained via BS proc. this does not include the cost of the HS.

ofcourse there is no guarranty that using or not using HS means that you will get hit/block (considering your avoidance), hence not using the HS(thus saving the mana) makes more sense. althow .. HS does count for a bit of threat, however it's not exactly reliable, i'd rather consacrete then HS if you ask me.

feel free to corect me thow ..
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Postby Kracus » Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:11 am

I just light and use SoV, Bless Sanc.

My main group has been DK, mage, rogue/kitty and a druid. We use no CC and I don't consecrate much. I mainly stick with hammer, judge and shield. I pop Holy Shield from time to time. Normally ok to pull the next set, though in undead heroics I sometimes have to drink cause of holy wrath.

Stuff dies too fast for me to be concerned about running out of mana or threat. Some cases like in HoL and those idiotic Skycallers, I make him the skull, hit him with AS and hammer the rest and they kill the skycaller before he really targets anyone else.
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Postby heuvarius » Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:15 am

Best advice anyone can give about mana conservation is:
"watch omen"

That extra 20k threat your DPS will never need on a mob is waste mana which could be used for the next pull.
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Postby xstrykr » Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:56 am

heuvarius wrote:Best advice anyone can give about mana conservation is:
"watch omen"

That extra 20k threat your DPS will never need on a mob is waste mana which could be used for the next pull.


Not everyone uses Omen. I don't during trash pulls, raiding or instance or otherwise. Even in 5mans I rarely use it now. There's been a few fights that I've needed to run it - when I was OT'ing Sapphiron my first time, even though I didn't DPS until after he took to the skies, I somehow jumped on top of the list during the second phase and I ended up MT'ing it and the normal main tank couldn't pull it back off me :shock: So subsequent tries I ended up healing...
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Postby Levantine » Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:01 am

xstrykr wrote:
heuvarius wrote:Best advice anyone can give about mana conservation is:
"watch omen"

That extra 20k threat your DPS will never need on a mob is waste mana which could be used for the next pull.


Not everyone uses Omen. I don't during trash pulls, raiding or instance or otherwise. Even in 5mans I rarely use it now. There's been a few fights that I've needed to run it - when I was OT'ing Sapphiron my first time, even though I didn't DPS until after he took to the skies, I somehow jumped on top of the list during the second phase and I ended up MT'ing it and the normal main tank couldn't pull it back off me :shock: So subsequent tries I ended up healing...


Sapph Aura + JoL = Paladin's either main tanking or not tanking at all.
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Postby Belarkan » Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:56 am

xstrykr wrote:
heuvarius wrote:Best advice anyone can give about mana conservation is:
"watch omen"

That extra 20k threat your DPS will never need on a mob is waste mana which could be used for the next pull.


Not everyone uses Omen. I don't during trash pulls, raiding or instance or otherwise. Even in 5mans I rarely use it now. There's been a few fights that I've needed to run it - when I was OT'ing Sapphiron my first time, even though I didn't DPS until after he took to the skies, I somehow jumped on top of the list during the second phase and I ended up MT'ing it and the normal main tank couldn't pull it back off me :shock: So subsequent tries I ended up healing...


You don't care who uses omen nowadays as long as YOU have it.
And if you don't use it, don't complain about mana :)
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Postby oldboyz » Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:59 am

Erendis wrote:There are 2 solutions:

1. Pull More.
2. Hit "X" untill your mana refills.

That's the way it has always been.


0. : put some DPS gear (good news is +STR give also +blok--> less domage)
because mana problem may come from you outgear the content


on a personal note, when my mana goes below 40%, it is just because i forgot to refresh Bosanc. I barely use divine suplication between pull
the only time i went empty Vs a boss, i just drunk a pot
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Re: Mana Conservation in Heroics

Postby Snake-Aes » Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:12 am

aleyona wrote:Okay, everyone who tanked in BC know that mana conservation has always been a bit of an issue. It was believed that the changes to sanctuary would alleviate this issue, however I'm not so sure that is the case.

So, the question proposed is - What do you do for mana conservation in heroics.

When doing trash mobs in heroics, I've honestly had healers tell me... You know, it's okay to take more damage. At the same time, I'm sitting here running out of mana because I need to keep my threat level up to a certain point for the DPS I run with.

Thanks to the small mana pool, I can use a single water/strudel and get back my mana within a few seconds - but when you are going for achievements you tend to stay in combat almost exclusively.
I stop consecrating with 3- mobs.
If common sense is going on and you are killing the first mob without aoe, you probably don't need consecration after it dies either.
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Postby Candiru » Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:41 am

Remember to use SoW.

Seriously, seal threat is pretty low at the moment, just use SoW and you will have no mana problems at all.
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Postby knaughty » Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:09 am

Belarkan wrote:
xstrykr wrote:
heuvarius wrote:Best advice anyone can give about mana conservation is:
"watch omen"

That extra 20k threat your DPS will never need on a mob is waste mana which could be used for the next pull.


Not everyone uses Omen. I don't during trash pulls, raiding or instance or otherwise. Even in 5mans I rarely use it now. There's been a few fights that I've needed to run it - when I was OT'ing Sapphiron my first time, even though I didn't DPS until after he took to the skies, I somehow jumped on top of the list during the second phase and I ended up MT'ing it and the normal main tank couldn't pull it back off me :shock: So subsequent tries I ended up healing...


You don't care who uses omen nowadays as long as YOU have it.
And if you don't use it, don't complain about mana :)


Exactly.

Donlt complain about going OOM if you're not going to bother to use your primary tool for working out how much mana you actually need to spend.

• 100% accurate threat numbers are in-game for a reason
• Mana = threat.
• Pumping out triple the TPS of your DPS every pull, then drinking, is grossly inefficient.

Additional tip: Know the mana efficiency of your tanking moves, or at least know than Consecrate sucks by that metric.
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Postby Jellypop » Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:02 pm

pull more is always the best option.




well..

unless you pull, too much more.
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Postby Kilthanas » Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:51 pm

Belarkan wrote:
7.) Spiritual Attunement Glyph


7) not a very good glyph


I disagree here.
Moving from 10% to 12% is 20% more to SA.
Sounds pretty good.

On your mana issues, you should make your own opinion and learn how to deal with.
I didn't have much mana issue back in BC even while outgearing the content. LK changes have made things even easier.
Stop spamming brainlessly abilities, just keep the bare minimum threat to keep the aggro, use and abuse wisdom, have a look at the threat per mana of your abilities to name a few.


You sure that's how it works? The tier 6 two set was 10% more, and everybody said that moved it from 10% to 11% (10% more). 2% more from the glyph means moving it from 10% to 10.2%.

If that is correct then yeah, horrible, terrible, godawful glyph.
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