Heroic's and 10 Man's in WOTLK a Joke?

[Ragingsoul]

Anyway, that OT has really variable DPS - might be a prot-spec pally (low DPS) or a Fury warrior (high DPS)

humm, lol.
as MT, I'm doing 2.3k dps on patchwerk in 10 men, without the 5% crit increase from druid/warr.. sure, the dps are doing around 3k or more, but calling that low dps..
after clearing naxx, I'm 3rd on overall dmg.

[majiben]

REP gear - Compare not the relative quality of Special issue leggings (Argent Crusade Honored) and time warden leggings (Keepers of time revered) but how easy they are to aquire... Argent crusade rep honored rep can be reached just with questing + dailies, no need to even enter a dungeon, let alone far rep like you would have had to do for Keepers of time....

You could get to revered with KoT in a single day. Do Durnhold, and BM about 3 times. Ding revered. Maybe 3 hours of your time. I am finding it takes much longer to get honoured with Argent Crusade, let alone revered for the helm enchant.

Don't forget at the end of TBC's life cycle getting a normal group together for one run much the less multiple was quite hard. Really the best most could hope for was to have a group do durn and decide they want to do the follow up questline in BM. It didn't help that most of the people you Pugged with were newbies doing their first (and likely only run) of the instance.

As for the difficulty of getting AC rep, it depends upon were you quested. I leveled from 74-77 in ZD and 78-80 in Icecrown gaining a lot of AC rep. I did the patrol daily 2 times (getting the bonus for being quick once) and ran 2 heroics to get enough rep to revered. I highly recommend you run heroics over regulars for rep if you have a group that can handle it.

[deuce]

REP gear - Compare not the relative quality of Special issue leggings (Argent Crusade Honored) and time warden leggings (Keepers of time revered) but how easy they are to aquire... Argent crusade rep honored rep can be reached just with questing + dailies, no need to even enter a dungeon, let alone far rep like you would have had to do for Keepers of time....

You could get to revered with KoT in a single day. Do Durnhold, and BM about 3 times. Ding revered. Maybe 3 hours of your time. I am finding it takes much longer to get honoured with Argent Crusade, let alone revered for the helm enchant.

Don't forget at the end of TBC's life cycle getting a normal group together for one run much the less multiple was quite hard. Really the best most could hope for was to have a group do durn and decide they want to do the follow up questline in BM. It didn't help that most of the people you Pugged with were newbies doing their first (and likely only run) of the instance.

As for the difficulty of getting AC rep, it depends upon were you quested. I leveled from 74-77 in ZD and 78-80 in Icecrown gaining a lot of AC rep. I did the patrol daily 2 times (getting the bonus for being quick once) and ran 2 heroics to get enough rep to revered. I highly recommend you run heroics over regulars for rep if you have a group that can handle it.

I got to revered without entering a dungeon... I did all the quests in Dragonblight and Zuldrak while leveling and at 79 I went to Icecrown and did all the Argent crusade quests... After that it was only a few dailies to get to revered (human bonus)... I knew what factions I wanted, researched and went after them... On top of that I got to revered with Wyrmcrest after only 4 heroics (picked up the boots and chest to hit 540)...

[Khayne]

Anyway, that OT has really variable DPS - might be a prot-spec pally (low DPS) or a Fury warrior (high DPS)

humm, lol.
as MT, I'm doing 2.3k dps on patchwerk in 10 men, without the 5% crit increase from druid/warr.. sure, the dps are doing around 3k or more, but calling that low dps..
after clearing naxx, I'm 3rd on overall dmg.

you may want to notice the bolded parts differentiate alot.

If you´re OT (think say, how off-tanking gruul), you may get very rarely hit, you may even be hit relatively lightly, yet you need to be able to take that hit when it happens. Yes, we not got more low mana costing attacks and we got mana regen once a minute. You still wont be chain spamming all of those if you OT, but as MT you can keep all of those rolling.

So minimal mana from BoS, low mana from SA.
That can affect your dps by alot when you can´t use concecrate at all and dont get holy shield dps, or whatever ways i dont mention now.

Also just because you´re 3rd on total dmg in whole instance, it doesn´t mean anything as far as how much dps you can pump at the time your raid needs it if you´d be OT, our dps increases linearly with amount of opponents, in most cases where you need the maximum dps, the target is single boss. Your concecrate wont be doing 10 000 dps on patchwerk like it does on a pack of 20 mobs (just an example, i dont mean you´d be tanking 20 at a time in naxx).

Dont mix up "i aoe whole corridors at once as MT" dps, and "we need to kill this one huge damn boss, and you´ll be OT on it"

[Dianora]

The heroics are a sliding scale. Utgarde Keep and Nexus are stupid easy, but Gul'Drak and Utgarde Pinnacle are extremely difficult.

I'm ok with Gundrak and Pinnacle. The ones I'm having issues with is Halls of Stone (haven't done the Brann event without party wiping yet, but we did win) and Halls of Lightning (Loken is not easy in Heroic). I still haven't find a consistent way of winning in Old Kingdom end boss.

My opinion of the heroic I've done:

Utgarde Keep
Drak'Tharon
Gundrak
Utgarde Pinnacle
CoT Culling of Stratholme (timed event. Haven't succeed without a retribution paladin yet)
Azjol-Nerub
Old Kingdom
Halls of Stone
Halls of Lightning

I haven't got around to doing Violet Hold, The Nexus, or Occulus yet in heroic.

[Ragingsoul]

Anyway, that OT has really variable DPS - might be a prot-spec pally (low DPS) or a Fury warrior (high DPS)

humm, lol.
as MT, I'm doing 2.3k dps on patchwerk in 10 men, without the 5% crit increase from druid/warr.. sure, the dps are doing around 3k or more, but calling that low dps..
after clearing naxx, I'm 3rd on overall dmg.

you may want to notice the bolded parts differentiate alot.

If you´re OT (think say, how off-tanking gruul), you may get very rarely hit, you may even be hit relatively lightly, yet you need to be able to take that hit when it happens. Yes, we not got more low mana costing attacks and we got mana regen once a minute. You still wont be chain spamming all of those if you OT, but as MT you can keep all of those rolling.

So minimal mana from BoS, low mana from SA.
That can affect your dps by alot when you can´t use concecrate at all and dont get holy shield dps, or whatever ways i dont mention now.

Also just because you´re 3rd on total dmg in whole instance, it doesn´t mean anything as far as how much dps you can pump at the time your raid needs it if you´d be OT, our dps increases linearly with amount of opponents, in most cases where you need the maximum dps, the target is single boss. Your concecrate wont be doing 10 000 dps on patchwerk like it does on a pack of 20 mobs (just an example, i dont mean you´d be tanking 20 at a time in naxx).

Dont mix up "i aoe whole corridors at once as MT" dps, and "we need to kill this one huge damn boss, and you´ll be OT on it"

if you read my post, I said I did 2.3k dps on patchwerk, on a single target boss. no consecration since it does next to no dmg. as for OT, if you don't take enough dmg to do your rotation with hammer Shield and judgment, then switch to seal of blood for exemple. I'm not saying the OT will outdps everyone, I was just pointing out that he can do a lot of dmg too, almost as good as the MT. holy shield doesn't even do 1% of my dmg when I crit for 5k with hammer, and 7k with ShoR.

just so you know, on trash, When I aoe, first on dmg is hammer, then shield, then melee, and only then consecration. hammer and shiled don't cost a thing if you have some sort of replenish in the raid.