Is the new PvE game going to be too easy?

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Postby phaqueue » Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:54 pm

Angelus wrote:
But it still doesn't lead any credibility to your ESPN comparison. There is no indication that WoW had issues with Casuals leaving so they couldn't pay the bills for the 25-mans. Everyone pays the same amount of EVERY game, that doesn't mean everyone is entitled to see a game ending or extra features reserved for those that can complete a game on a "Hard" or "Extreme" difficulty.(I say this knowing that this idea is also premature since we haven't seen any raids past Naxx and Malygos, I already mentioned that in a previous post)



see the bolded there?

here's the flaw with your comparison...

you are saying that people don't have a right to see "extra" content without earning it by beating the game on hard or extreme type levels...
and you are right... but you are using that argument to come to the wrong conclusion...

what the devs at WoW have done is such... they have given those people - who can't/don't care to beat the game on "hard" or "extreme" (read 25-mans) a way to still actually see the ending of the game (by running it 10 man)

for instance... I have hardcore raided in both Vanilla and TBC... cleared everything through AQ40 and killed 8 Naxx Bosses pre-TBC... and in TBC, I killed everything through Illidan pre-nerf (quit raiding shortly after illi went down - due to time constraints)

As someone who has been a hardcore raider... I have decided that I don't like the playstyle... I can't stand have a schedule for when I have to play a GAME...

I like to be able to just log on and decide to run something with friends...

This is part of the reason I prefer to PVP now... because I can do it on my schedule... instead of on someone elses...

as someone who enjoys the storyline behind wow... and enjoys seeing the new content - I love the idea of 10-mans... I can see the content and boss fights... see the stories and flavor... but not have to put in the time like someone who cares about the gear...

my gear will be mostly from heroics/5-mans and "badges" (whatever the equiv is now) and from PVP... and I have no problem with that...

my problem is that I really don't care about farming something for drops after I have seen it... should I really want to? my roommate is an officer in the top guild on the server... when i left my last raiding guild... he basically offered me the illi healing mace and memento (on my resto shammy) should I want to come raid with them... and a spot... but I turned it down... why? cause raiding just isn't that important..

sorry for being so long-winded... just letting you know where I'm coming from - I've been on both sides... and I like the one of being able to see the content on my own schedule - not the schedule someone else sets for me...
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Postby Levantine » Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:19 pm

Elsie wrote:
Worldie wrote:3 priests for felmyst.


The major guildkiller were two, the retarded class stacking (hello shamans?), and the setups which were too much different from boss to boss.

What you mean every guild doesn't have a spare 7 shamans sitting around?

(yeah you could do it with 3, but 4 was infinitely better. And 5 allowed one of them to die without wiping the raid).


Like I said, there was a massive shortage of decent Priests on Caelestrasz.
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Postby Avey » Sat Nov 15, 2008 6:25 pm

Seeing as less than three days after release every boss has been killed I would say, yes, it's going to be easy.
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Postby Worldie » Sat Nov 15, 2008 6:32 pm

Every boss was farmed on beta already, how exactly it was supposed to be remotely a challenge?

Even I had already killed all of them in 10 men, and most of them in 25 men.

World firsts have no sense when there is 3 new bosses, 15 4-years-old ones, which have been available to everyone for 5 months of beta.

Let's be serious.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby Robbert » Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:36 pm

So what is Blizzard to do?

If they don't include raid content in beta and something in an encounter is overlooked everyone QQs that the fight is 'broken' and asks why the encounter wasn't covered in beta.

If they do include raid content in beta and catch most/all of the potential 'broken' issues before release then 'world first' is mainly about who can rush to the content quickest (aka 25thNov) and everyone QQs that content is too easy (for people who've basically been farming said content on beta for months).

Either way it seems like everyone is QQing.
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Postby Seraphia » Sun Nov 16, 2008 12:16 am

You ignore that top 1% or whatever, it doesn't matter how insanely difficult it is to beat, they'll beat it.

You just can't cater to them. It's literally impossible.
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Postby Worldie » Sun Nov 16, 2008 5:11 am

Robbert wrote:Either way it seems like everyone is QQing.

Not everyone, just the wannabehardcorers.

I'm fine as it is, current content will probably keep me busy for the next 2-3 months. By then i'd guess ulduar will be out.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby Cryage » Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:45 pm

phaqueue wrote:*SNIP*

sorry for being so long-winded... just letting you know where I'm coming from - I've been on both sides... and I like the one of being able to see the content on my own schedule - not the schedule someone else sets for me...


^ This.

I was hardcore raiding in Vanilla WoW where "Better gear" meant "More int/stam!" when there was no spell damage, no crit, no hit.

I was hardcore raiding with TBC where 4-5 nights a week were just dedicated to wiping and learning bosses.

I'm tired of it. I dont have the time for it anymore, I'm not a college student who can stay up till 2-3 am and choose to skip my stock market class the next morning because i NEEDED to see Nefarias/Illidan.

I am very excited with the 10 man content. I know the gear is considerably lower but I don't care. If I enjoy what I play and wind up in the occasional 25 man group for being good at what I do, all the power too me, but I refuse to run a 4-5 night schedule and limit my time with my friends and family who i barely see enough working 10 hour days :p
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Postby Kellel » Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:11 pm

How about some quick board room math to help some of the elitists that think they have it all figured it see a little clearer. To put it bluntly ....

I'm Blizzard.

Hrmm .. should I spend 15 million dollars making 1% of 11 million people (110k) feel "challeged?" when there is a good chance they will probably pay their monthly fee anyway?

Monthly revenue stream changed by 0 dollars per month.
Investment returned: NEVER


Orrrrrrr .. should I spend 15 million dollars on making an expansion that will likely draw another 2 or 3 million (let say 2.5 mill) users .. who will pay their monthly fee? Even if let's say 20% of our hard cores get pissed off and quit playing the game?

20% of 110k = 22k = Revenue Stream Monthly Loss of $328,900.
2.5 million new subscribers = $37,375,000.00

$37,375,000.00 - $328,900 = $37,046,100.00

Monthly revenue stream changed by approx $37 million dollars PER MONTH.
Investment Returned: roughly 15 days lol.



hrmmm... tough one, can I sleep on it?
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Postby Spectrum » Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:30 pm

Kellel wrote: {stuff about money}


I don't think it has as much to do with money for blizzard as it does with making the player base happy. Most of the people who play the game, though not most of the people who frequent this site, did not see BT, Hyjal or SW unless they hopped in a PUG after the nerfs.

Just beating a boss isn't the big deal anymore. It's meant to be easy. It's stage one. Beating Naxx 25 with out a single person dying is a real achievement, and, guess what, it's an achievement in game too.

I think the problem is that just killing a boss on easy mode doesn't really mean much anymore. There are still plenty of challenges, and Blizzard will make more, but they are making the raids in general more accessible which will make more people happy with the game.

The devs probably do care about making a good and enjoyable game.
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Postby degre » Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:36 am

Spectrum wrote:The devs probably do care about making a good and enjoyable game.

This. Blizzard's quality is top in the market.

Starcraft was released over 10 years ago, it is still today the best competitive RTS on the market.


WoW was too hardcore in vanilla, requiring demented numbers of peoplem which in the end proved to be only raid fillers good to wipe.

Lesson learned. We are now down to 25men, but people now are required not to fall asleep on their keyboards and move from the fire.
Unfortunately a good majority of people is simply retarded and cannot do anything more then standing on the spot and mashing their favorite button, resulting in more access, more mass wipes.

Lesson learned. Now you have an easier 10 men content for casual/retards and a 25 men content for more hardcore players, or simply more wipes. The nice topping are the achievements, so were the scrub will go around just happily claiming that have cleared the game, hardcore pro-raider could brag about finishing the game 10menning 25men content with an amr tied behind their back and the secretary under the desk.




PS. before anyone got offended, I don't consider casual retards, I'm putting them together simply as they both need a more friendly content. You cannot clear BT by casually calling your mates and asking them to log for a stroll in the park.

PS2. while I do accept complain from casuals, retards should just GTFO. If you cannot execute orders as easy as "move closer to attumen in order to avoid being charged", you deserve progressing no more.

PS3. long post is long, gettting bored at work and wanted to rant a bit.
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Postby Worldie » Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:39 am

Also broken keyboard is broken.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby darklac » Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:08 am

Kellel wrote:How about some quick board room math to help some of the elitists that think they have it all figured it see a little clearer. To put it bluntly ....

I'm Blizzard.

Hrmm .. should I spend 15 million dollars making 1% of 11 million people (110k) feel "challeged?" when there is a good chance they will probably pay their monthly fee anyway?

Monthly revenue stream changed by 0 dollars per month.
Investment returned: NEVER


Orrrrrrr .. should I spend 15 million dollars on making an expansion that will likely draw another 2 or 3 million (let say 2.5 mill) users .. who will pay their monthly fee? Even if let's say 20% of our hard cores get pissed off and quit playing the game?

20% of 110k = 22k = Revenue Stream Monthly Loss of $328,900.
2.5 million new subscribers = $37,375,000.00

$37,375,000.00 - $328,900 = $37,046,100.00

Monthly revenue stream changed by approx $37 million dollars PER MONTH.
Investment Returned: roughly 15 days lol.



hrmmm... tough one, can I sleep on it?


it doesnt work like that. the top 3% wants more but if you dont give them something they quit. ok the next top 3% want the same thing.. its a cycle the top people always want more others bitch untill they are in that 3% and then they want the same thing.
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Postby Levantine » Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:27 am

How is logging into the game and having Blizzard throw epix at you fun?
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Postby degre » Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:28 am

Worldie wrote:Also broken keyboard is broken.

You only need Q to be working.


Levantine wrote:How is logging into the game and having Blizzard throw epix at you fun?

While I do agree with you, there are more people that want those epix, dont care how, they want it, they paid for it, fullstop.

If you even try to say that it's a reward and you should earn it with a bit of effort, you're named an elitist jerk :º(
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