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Theorycrafting conundrum

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Theorycrafting conundrum

Postby Orbitus » Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:30 pm

So today i ran into a warrior, who as of this moment is under the "magic" defense number. So he is crit-able, but when his shield block is up his numbers would go well above the 102% mark.

So my question is, would this push crits off his table? or would crits remain unchanged and thus his block chance limited?

In case he changes his gear, his defensive stats, before shield block, are as follows:
Code: Select all
Defense:   460
Miss:    8.80%
Dodge:  15.26%
Parry:  15.29%
Block:  19.85%
Crit:    1.20%
Crush:  15.00%
Normal: 26.40%


Sorry that this isnt specifically regarding paladin, but id like to know the mechanics in this situation.
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Postby Grigsby » Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:40 pm

If memory serves me correctly. You can be Un-Crushable, while still being Crittable (Is that a word?) and Vice Versa.
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Postby Girard » Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:58 pm

The hit table is..
Miss
Dodge
Parry
Glancing Blow (only players and pets versus mobs)
Block
Critical
Crushing Blow (mobs only)

As you gear up, things fall off from bottom to top. It is possible to have enough block% to push crushes off the table while leaving crits on, since crushes fall off first (being at the bottom).

Defense doesn't 'push' off crits, it just reduces chance to be critted and increases your block/parry/dodge.. basically to fill the void of that equal Crit chance
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Postby Orbitus » Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:01 pm

Girard wrote:The hit table is..
As you gear up, things fall off from bottom to top. It is possible to have enough block% to push crushes off the table while leaving crits on, since crushes fall off first (being at the bottom).

Defense doesn't 'push' off crits, it just reduces chance to be critted and increases your block/parry/dodge.. basically to fill the void of that equal Crit chance


Right, but in this specific situation, would this warrior's activation of shield block eliminate his chance to be critically hit?
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Postby Worldie » Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:05 pm

Yes a warrior kicks also crit chance off. Well, also a paladin can do it.

Crits anyway hurt more than a crushing, so it's better being immune =)
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Postby Orbitus » Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:10 pm

Worldie wrote:Yes a warrior kicks also crit chance off. Well, also a paladin can do it.

Crits anyway hurt more than a crushing, so it's better being immune =)


Hope this is correct information.

Btw im not asking for personal character improvement, but for a web application im working on (For calculating Tanking stats of Pallies and Warriors). It choked on this specific warrior as i never had contingency plan for his situation.

Any further input on this is welcomed ^_^
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Postby Dorvan » Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:19 pm

Worldie is correct, crits can be pushed off just like crushes, there just isn't any reason not to get 490 defense and run the risk of a raid-wiping crit between Holy Shields.
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Re: Theorycrafting conundrum

Postby Girard » Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:38 pm

Orbitus wrote:
Code: Select all
Defense:   460
Miss:    8.80%
Dodge:  15.26%
Parry:  15.29%
Block:  19.85%
Crit:    1.20%
Crush:  15.00%
Normal: 26.40%


Ok. So after shield block goes up it turns to
Code: Select all
Miss:    8.80%
Dodge:  15.26%
Parry:  15.29%
Block:  62.45%

So yes, his shield block would push off the crits too.

A paladin with +35.3 block from holy shield would turn it to:

Code: Select all
Miss:    8.80%
Dodge:  15.26%
Parry:  15.29%
Block:  55.15%
Crit:    1.20%
Crush:  6.10%
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Re: Theorycrafting conundrum

Postby Palafix » Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:27 pm

I doubt warriors use shield block for non bosses. As far as I'm aware revenge is the only threat generating move that depends on blocking, and not using it isn't nearly as significant as a paladin not using holy shield. I would say that it's much easier for a warrior to be uncrushable but crittable, but not practical at all, where as for a paladin, it could theoretically work if you kept holy shield at all times, but it'd be weird being uncrushable with less than 490 defense.
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Postby Chorus » Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:05 am

OP, from what I understand, Block does not push Critical Blows off of the attack table like it does Crushing Blows. It seems to be reserved for +Defense to whittle away at.

The Attack table illustration at http://www.wowwiki.com/Attack_table seem to suggest this.
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Postby Orbitus » Sun Sep 23, 2007 5:54 am

Chorus wrote:OP, from what I understand, Block does not push Critical Blows off of the attack table like it does Crushing Blows. It seems to be reserved for +Defense to whittle away at.

The Attack table illustration at http://www.wowwiki.com/Attack_table seem to suggest this.


Actually Example 1 on that page suggests that shield block can reduce chance to be critically hit.

Here is my condensed version of their roll charts:
Code: Select all
         Shield Block
          OFF    ON
Miss     5.00%  5.00%
Dodge    4.50%  4.50%
Parry    6.20%  6.20%
Block    5.10% 80.10%
Crit     5.00%  4.20% <--
Crush    0.00%  0.00%
Normal  74.20%  0.00%


Thank you for the link though ^_^
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Postby Mithos » Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:13 am

Could get him to install the TankPoints mod and read off the combat table is shows you, as far as I'm aware it's correct :).
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Postby Belarkan » Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:16 am

I wonder if defense still keeps us safe from critics while we are stuned or bashed (in both cases we can't avoid the blow).
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Postby adese » Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:37 am

I would guess that it does, since on the Defense tooltip it lists the percent decrease of crits separately from the percent increase to miss/dodge/parry/block. That to me says that we don't need to avoid the crit to not get crit, but we are just naturally crit immune while wearing that gear.
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Postby Gerilith » Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:43 am

Never got a crit when being stunned....never. You are literally uncrittable with 490 defense.
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