Sinister Reflections

Kalecgos, Brutallus, Felmyst, M'uru, Entropius, Kil'jaeden

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Postby Worldie » Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:12 pm

Personal experience about reflections:

Warriors: No idea, we have 0 warriors in raid
Rogues: Do they do anything special? We just aoetanked em and aoed em down.
Druids: We didn't even notice the moonfire, negligible melee damage.
Priests: Most annoying ever, we focus them down (no mass dispels), one shaman keeps an eye on KJ, other shaman keeps purging the current DPS target.
Paladins: StunStunStunStunStunStunStunStunStunzzzz
Hunters: Just annoying since you need to get in melee to them before moving them. If they do anything special, i didn't notice, we just aoed em down.
Mages/Locks: Solotanking those means troubles. We try to distribute 2 on me and 2 on the other tank. AoEd them as well.
Shamans: Again, if they have any particular skill, i didn't notice, we aoed em down as well, negligible melee.

Basically Paladins are annoying, priests are fail, locks and mages hurt.

We don't have melees dpsing the adds at any time, they are full time on KJ. Maybe they hit them during the bubble, if they are still alive.
Also, our raids atm consist in 4 to 6 paladins and 3 to 5 shamans, so paladin and shaman images are quite common. Good thing we hardly have more than 1 mage.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby knaughty » Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:34 pm

Worldie wrote:Personal experience about reflections:

Grats on KJ?
Worldie wrote:Rogues: Do they do anything special? We just aoetanked em and aoed em down.

Rape clothies. I had a rogue hiding behind KJ one time, couldn't find the damn rogues through all the AE (had them targetted but no range/direction to shield in). They WTFPWNED the healer on that side before I found them.
Worldie wrote:Priests: Most annoying ever, we focus them down (no mass dispels), one shaman keeps an eye on KJ, other shaman keeps purging the current DPS target.
Paladins: StunStunStunStunStunStunStunStunStunzzzz
Hunters: Just annoying since you need to get in melee to them before moving them. If they do anything special, i didn't notice, we just aoed em down.
Mages/Locks: Solotanking those means troubles. We try to distribute 2 on me and 2 on the other tank. AoEd them as well.

Basically Paladins are annoying, priests are fail, locks and mages hurt.

We don't have melees dpsing the adds at any time, they are full time on KJ. Maybe they hit them during the bubble, if they are still alive.

Yup, pretty much my experience. Sometimes melee help kill priests. I tend to tank 3/4 of the mage-locks, sometimes all four, but usually the kittybear grabs one. It gets sketchy, I have died.
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Postby fuzzygeek » Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:59 pm

Worldie wrote:We brought him constistently to p4 (when the dragon user didn't fail at clicking a button), now just a matter to sort out armageddons and i can complete my Outland Raider achievement.


I hate armageddon.

Fights like this make me want more fights where solid tanking and capable healers can drag stupid DPS face first through content.

We had a ret paladin put up RF and JOL -- he was sustaining over 4k TPS. He did die twice -- once to spikes, once to warrior reflections bladestorming all over him. I'm not certain it's worth the trade off, but our bear tank is afk a few days so I've moved down into his slot and decided to try retatank for a night.
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Postby caboom » Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:25 am

Warriors : easy to kill but ppl must move away cuz of the nasty whirlwinds
Rogues : In particular for us they were tricky because our rogues are all mutilate, with the illidan dagger so each reflection had also an ember of azzinoth
Priest : the trickiest by far, the way we do is spam mass dispell on them to remove their renews, worked wonders last night and we even had a pack on the kill, and it wasn't up more than 10 sec.
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Postby Worldie » Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:17 am

Uhm i think i should be happy they havent cloned our glaive rogue yet.
Plus, we have no ferals nor warriors in raid.


Still, 2 prot paladins are OP for that fight, really.

Not yet down, probably down on next day of attempts, so today, or next week.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby caboom » Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:09 am

Melee moron reflections are not even half as dangerous as mage ones, be it with glaives or not.
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Postby knaughty » Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:39 am

caboom wrote:Melee moron reflections are not even half as dangerous as mage ones, be it with glaives or not.


Melee reflections are a joke for the tankadin. Your priest will non find them so lolworthy. They're very dangerous to the raid rather than the pally. If you're slow picking them up, they will kill people.

We have a PvE specced glaive rogue in guild. Whenever I get too shitty with PvP I just duel him. Slant's sinister strike was blocked
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Postby Worldie » Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:51 am

If you are slow picking up reflections they will kill people, no real matter what their class is ;)
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby sanctifico » Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:23 am

Grabbing Sinister Reflections, Avengers Shield + Judgement = Win.

Killing Hunter,Warrior,Rogue,Druid,Shaman,Paladin,Priest is easy pull them into Melee range of KJ and have Warlocks seed on KJ (Rogues can use bladedance etc).

Warlocks dont do as much damage as mages, and you can get them to move (well they always move for me).
Mages - get to them, bubblewall if needed, and have mages/locks nuke them ASAP, priests/shamans should chain sheild you (even a shadow priest can shield you), and throw you some love.

Everyone else Nuke KJ, hunters sending the occasional autoshot/steadyshot at the orbs.

We nuked KJ down with four colapses first time, one last week, and no colapses on this reset. <47k+ dps on KJ == Imbah WIN
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Postby caboom » Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:18 am

Knaughty wrote:
caboom wrote:Melee moron reflections are not even half as dangerous as mage ones, be it with glaives or not.


Melee reflections are a joke for the tankadin. Your priest will non find them so lolworthy. They're very dangerous to the raid rather than the pally. If you're slow picking them up, they will kill people.

We have a PvE specced glaive rogue in guild. Whenever I get too shitty with PvP I just duel him. Slant's sinister strike was blocked


ye i was talking about tank pov, worldie was concerned about it in the upper post. :P
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Postby Eender » Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:42 pm

Reflection Tank (Prot Paladin)

P2: KJ will now start to pop up. I run around the circle along the melee till KJ becomes active. I then Exorcise him so that I am top on threat till the tank gets agro just to try and give him a less squishy target if one is selected. At the same instant I do that I also judge Wisdom. Then I proceed to run to the back of the room to keep out of Firebloom range of other people only to run in range and Mana Tap on cooldowns. If I get low on mana from Legion Lightning I will call out that I am going to stack on someone with bloom so that I can recoup some mana from SA. When KJ hits 86% I go stack on Square so that I will have the best range capabilities for reflections when they spawn.

P3: KJ has hit 85%. He will stop targeting anyone for a second and during this time I am spamming my /targetexact macro. If you do this when reflections pop you will usually be able to see who they spawned from in their target frame as well for a fraction of a second (this helps alot). NOTE***: You will need a metric shit ton of consumables of a variable and vast selection for this which I will go over later in the post. I then make sure to be in range and throw my Avenger's Shield. While this is flying I am running towards them (usualy) and putting up seal or righteousness for the one that I didn't hit with shield. This also puts me in range for consecrate usualy. I then procede to pull the reflections to the melee spot 2 or 3 spots left of square (depending on who is on what spot over there at the time of the raid). Sometimes this will not be possible depending on what type of Reflection call it is. Once I get into position I will call for AE to start dpsing. This dps consists of 3 warlocs. They will keep dpsing until the first collapse is called and then shatter to help not pull agro. You keep dpsing the adds till they are dead and then go back to your spot in the back of the room and wait for 55%. During this time I also toss out flash of light to help out the healers as my mana and range permit.

P4: This is exactly the same as P3 with two exceptions. First off, once you get the reflections where you want them and start tanking them you pop Avenging Wrath as you call for the start of DPS. This gives the warlocs more of a buffer for agro since they don't have shatter up atm. Secondly, you have to watch for meteors coming down on top of your head. Also, on every Reflection wave you must be watching for the Shadow Spike debuff (think MS in PvP) and calling this loud and clear on vent for your healers or you will die and the raid will wipe.

P5: This is exactly the same as P3 with the exception of also having to watch for meteors as you did in P4. YOU MUST BE VERY AWARE OF YOUR SURROUNDINGS, as there is a metric shit ton of stuff going on during this phase.

Consumables needed to fulfill this job task:
Free Action Potions
Ironshield Potions
Nightmare Seeds
Flask of Blinding Light
30 Stam Food
Superior Wizard Oil

Druids, Shaman, Rogue: These mobs move very easily and are melee mobs with a secondary attack that is cast at random ppl in the raid with exception of the rogue. Druids Moonfire which stack and needs to be dispelled. Shaman cast earth shock so grounding totems are dropped to counteract this. Rogues Hemorrhage which hits like a truck on 25k armor with out inspiration (3-3.5k each x 3-4 mobs..) For these 3 calls I use Ironshield potions and execute the strat which was posted above.

Mage & Warloc: Casters suck balls... These guys will hopefully spawn right next to KJ unless the person they spawned off of had blooms. If they are not next to KJ it needs to be called to DPS them directly. Mages wont move at all and warlocs move too slowly to make it feasible to drag them to KJ. If a mage call you switch auras over to FR. I do not know of a secondary attack the mage does other than just Fireball spam on it's highest threat target. Warlocs will shadowbolt spam with Curse of Agony mixed in (which stacks btw). No special consumables needed other than a probable Shadowmoon Insignia/Nightmare Seed pop to keep you alive as you take stupid spike damage from these reflections.

Priest & Paladin: These both melee as their primary attack. For Priests, they are easy enough to move so just use my normal strat from them and use Ironshield potions. The have a smite secondary attack which hits for 2k each and they cast it regularly. Paladins are a bit more of a pain in the ass. They hit relatively hard with their melee and their secondary attack is HoJ. For Paladins, as soon as my shield hits I pop a free action potion. This allows me to gain agro on all 4 paladins and then MOVE them where they need to go. When in position it is more of the same with DPS. The reason I classed these 2 together is that both need spam dispells. Priests need spammed with offensive dispels (to get rid of renew on mobs) and Paladins need spammed defensive dispels (to get rid of HoJ).

Warrior: These are pure melee spawns that hit pretty hard. Their secondary attack is Whirlwind which rapes non tanks. These are also the most dangerous mobs for the the safety of the raid and some of the hardest to position as it is very important where they are located. For these reflections I pop an Ironshield potion. I start out by doing my usual opening sequence and just running directly to where I want them tanked. While doing this I will call on vent for the person who's spot I am going to be using to move so that they have a heads up I am coming to them. By the time the mobs reach you consecration should be down. It is important that you get the reflections stacked on top of eachother as much as possible and you get them exactly on the spot of the displaced melee DPS you bumped out so that no one else gets hit with Whirlwind.

Hunters: These guys are a pain in the cock. Think of BT Wing Clip (roots you in place and mob runs off and laughs at you). These guys are physical DPS. If they are at range they ranged attack you and if they are in melee they melee you like they were a rogue. They hit HARD. For these guys I will throw my shield and run at them while popping my faps. When I get there I lay a consecrate. Now, I kite them back to the DPS spot walking backwards slow but steady. The reason I don't just book ass to my spot is that if you get out of melee range of any of the hunters they will just stand there and range you instead of moving. These guys take a while to get into position. Once they are in position I make sure to place them between myself and KJ so that their backs are to KJ. That way, if you DO get Wing Clipped they run away from you through KJ and are still in seed range. Once faps is wearing off I call out in vent clearly for a freedom. This will lengthen the time that the reflections will not run away from you and allow you to keep building threat.

Couple things to note:
I try and save bubble as much as possible. Sometimes I have to use it to clear a brand new Fire Bloom right before a reflection spawn. Sometimes I need to blow it because I am too far away from the bubble after tanking reflections. Sometimes you have to blow it cause you either didn't get a freedom while doing hunter call and darkness is going on or you didn't get dispelled outside of bubble while darkness is going off.

I use Ret Aura exclusively with the exception of Mages.

Make sure you have thorns. It isn't a ton of damage or threat but every little bit helps.

You must have a VERY good line of communication with your off tank. They save your life and control the chaos. Talk with them beforehand and hammer out how you are going to handle situations before you step in the zone.


I had this posted in the mass that is the KJ thread so it was easily over looked. Original post is http://www.failsafedesign.com/maintanka ... c&start=52
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Postby Worldie » Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:47 pm

Well, anything you wrote about pots is now inapplicable :)

Melee damage from all reflections was quite nerfed, they hardly pose any issue to heal through, only ones that can actually kill a tank are mages.
Also i don't know why, hunters haven't ever used Wing Clip on me yet.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Postby fafhrd » Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:13 pm

Worldie wrote:Well, anything you wrote about pots is now inapplicable :)

Melee damage from all reflections was quite nerfed, they hardly pose any issue to heal through, only ones that can actually kill a tank are mages.
Also i don't know why, hunters haven't ever used Wing Clip on me yet.


They took the wing clip out pretty early on iirc
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Postby Huon » Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:18 pm

I got clipped last week.
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Postby Cakes » Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:20 pm

fafhrd wrote:
Worldie wrote:Well, anything you wrote about pots is now inapplicable :)

Melee damage from all reflections was quite nerfed, they hardly pose any issue to heal through, only ones that can actually kill a tank are mages.
Also i don't know why, hunters haven't ever used Wing Clip on me yet.


They took the wing clip out pretty early on iirc


They took improved wing clip out early, they'll still wing clip if it hits.

I'd still recommend a free action potion for the paladins, but that's just me.
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