JoC and JoB

[Worldie]

Ok theres the question:

Do Judgement of Blood and Judgement of Command count as Magical or Physical skills? I cant understand why, i never seen my JoB resisted, both SoC and SoB procs are phisical, and most of all, if i JoB a mob/warrior with spellreflect up, it does not get reflected.

Anyone got any info on this subject? Since i'm considering using JoB for times in which i cannot afford a Resist (12% resist sigh) but if my idea is wrong it's not worth caring about making a specific macro.

[adese]

While I don't have either, I think that SoB, JoB, and SoC are all physical, while JoC is holy. This is why Alliance ret pallies want/need both physical DPS stats and spell DPS stats, since SoC/JoC rely on both.

[Lore]

Hmm. That's a really interesting thought.

[Zorrax]

That's a good question...I know on magic immune mobs(or at least the mana feeders in kara) JoB comes up as Immune.

[Belarkan]

According to wowwiki for the judgement of command:

"This Holy damage is considered to be physical, so it obeys melee critical hit chance and physical critical hit damage (x2 as opposed to x1.5 for magic)."

However, it is still magical damages, not affected by armor but I'll tend to think that magical immune mobs will not get any damage by this judgement.

[Aina]

WoWWiki says about SoB:

This seal is counted as a second melee strike in terms of game mechanics, meaning that the damage it deals can miss, be partially resisted as a glancing blow, can be dodged, blocked, and parried.

So, you'd have to ask yourself if the chance to miss, glance, be dodged, blocked or parried is better or worse then the 16% resist that SoR has.
From the top of my head, I'd say you'd be better of with 16% resist, but I'm sure someone else can figure that out

The Judgement gets effected by spelldamage, and as Zorrax pointed out, the Wyrms in Kara are Immune to it (but not the Seal damage). So my guess is it uses the spell mechanics. Maybe it's like JoC though.
Does anyone know for sure if the Kara wyrms are immune to JoC?

It's odd that spell reflect doesn't effect JoB btw, and the wyrms do.

hmm, maybe the Elitist Jerks have done some research on this?

[tullock]

Joc is melee crit but spell hit. Job i have never used, not having a blood elf paladin.



Edit, as to classification, Joc is a hybrid attack that has pros and cons of both physical and magical attacks. For instance, it cannot be casted while bopped, it can be casted while disarmed, but not while silenced. And while it is based off of spell hit, it crits for 2x damage like a physical ability, rather than 1.5x of a spell. Also, it goes through a spell resist check(hence the spell hit), rather than being open to dodge/parry/miss mechanics.

[Worldie]

Everyone agrees that SoC and SoB are effectively another phisical attack.

The fact that their respective judgements cannot be cast while silenced or immune is due to the Judgement spell mechanic and is common to every spell.

The interesting thing is that i've never seen a JoB being resisted, and with never i mean never since i always have seen the damage on me after it. And still it can be used on spellreflecting mobs. While (tried today) it doesnt work on magic immune mobs.

So seemb its a hybrid skill using both magic and phisical things, but i still cannot see if its me just lucky, or really JoB cannot be resisted.

Looking at the mechanics of SoB, it appears to be nearly a clone of SoC, so same should be for the judgements. That may also be a valuable thing for ally paladins if also JoC appears to not be "resistible" and then would be worth taking and using for aggro sensitive fights where you cannot afford a resisted judgement. (Leotheras for example, or Hydross' adds to say two examples)

I've just wondered if they are like Crusader Strike, a holy damage phisical strike, just that cannot "miss", and neither be dodged-parried-blocked since its a ranged attack.

[tullock]

The fact that joc cannot be cast while immune from bop is because of its melee side of abilities. judgement of righteousness is fully castable whislt in bop. Again, no knowledge of job, but joc is resistable. Also Crusader strike is not holy damage, it is yellow, but purely physical and mitigated by armor.

In regards to landing a joc, it is a spell with a 10 yard range, not a ranged attack, plus, ranged physical attacks can be blocked, blizz just patched out the reflective damage they did some time ago. Holy shield was a glorious thing when you could hit a hunter with it at max kiting range

[Girard]

And still it can be used on spellreflecting mobs. While (tried today) it doesnt work on magic immune mobs.

For the record, so does SoR

[Conneur]

And still it can be used on spellreflecting mobs. While (tried today) it doesnt work on magic immune mobs.

For the record, so does SoR

That's because, even though consecrate and SoR are spell damage, they're reactive rather than active in terms of spell reflection.

But! If I read correctly, Worldie noticed that JoB (SoB already being known about) also works through spell reflect. JoR, however, just makes your healers look at you with an upraised eyebrow when cast upon a spell reflection shield. SoC, like both SoB and SoR, also works in the reactive sense, thus it goes through spell damage.

But all judgments, though particular ones share the qualities of physical attributes in effect, are still spells. Every judgment is a spell when viewed by magic immunity, though maybe not in reflection in some cases, even if the damage it produces is innately physical.

[Maulininis]

In my experience, of JoB, SoB, SoC, and JoC, ONLY SoB is NOT affected by magical +dmg, regardless of which mechanic they all obey.

[Mithos]

JoC counts as an instant attack (Like MS, SS etc), as I saw it proc my TF from range, facing backwards (to make sure it wasn't the swing that did it). JoC/SoC takes spell dmg into account and are physical attacks (2x crit). I dunno about Blood though, I'm not a nubelf :>.

[Worldie]

I've also had my JoB proccing mongoose from ranged, so i think it uses same mechanic of JoC

[Tauxalot]

You may wanna double check that. Couple patches back they removed SoB and SoR having the capability of proccing weapon procs.