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New Blizzard Tank Forum -> What do we want?

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New Blizzard Tank Forum -> What do we want?

Postby Sarkan-ZdC » Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:45 am

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/27/1206528 ... -want.html

Holy Paladins had a thread and a GC answer.

How about making a prot paladin thread? And then somebody posts the points (or the one that most agree *g*) there?
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Postby Sarkan-ZdC » Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:52 am

My Points?

- 11 Point Talent still missing. Fun Talents promissed, so give us something

- Blockvalue emergency increase (shieldblock/critical block) like talent? Could be a 11 point talent

- Movement (Intercept/Intervene/Charge as warrior, Feral Charge as Bear, Grab as DK). Now they have all a ranged taunt (20y) added to that. In the case of a resist, they can all do something to get to the enemy fast. Paladins can't. Give us a movement ability.

I take the old furry jump thing even with bugs.

- Taunt. Give us a single target. It is not game breaking, it is not getting us ahead of the others. It is just something that every tank can do. Just taunt 1 of 2 mobs of another tank, so he can keep tanking his.

I would even take Rank 1 (1 Target) Rank 2 (3 Targets) that trigger the other Cooldown. Just as a convinience thing.

- DPS? We have +90% Threat on Holy damage. If we do a comparable TPS our DPS will be lower. How about tuning the 90% down to let's say 60% and give us more DPS. You can take away the threat on JoLight if you want. But DPS of the tanks should be comparable.
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Postby Bobness » Fri Oct 31, 2008 4:48 am

I think it's more of a "What do we want from the new forum"
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Postby tbolt » Fri Oct 31, 2008 4:52 am

I agree that I'm still waiting for my fun talents. I would also love to have the synergy of a prot warrior and how their abilities/talents work off each other, how using ability X can give proc Y and so on. That stuff is fun. Most of our stuff is static and is a straight % added to ability X. Some Ideas:

-It'd be great if ShoR had a secondary function, like how HotR procs seals or how the warrior's shield bash eats up the target's buffs. Maybe ShoR could daze, stun, silence, or proc judgements (+ some modifier off BV maybe?).
-Auras are improved, but still kind of crappy...it'd be great if they could make them functional so that changing them around during the fight would help us out. There is so much room for improvement and cool ideas there. Right now it's just fire and forget.
-Allowing us to use some of our demon/undead only spells on other things would be great too. Ever since the patch, I've fallen in love with Holy Wrath when fighting UD/demons because it's so useful. Even if it's at a reduced effectiveness and unusable in pvp, they would be very effective for tanking.


A charge isn't a big issue for me but since they all got ranged taunts and warriors have a silencing version of our Avenger's shield, why can't we have one?

More DPS/threat!!! We need it from what I've seen in comparison to other tanks. And also need it for soloing in addition to more mana regen since we can't always AoE tank mobs due to casters or other players in an area. Even with BoSanc, unless you're using seal/judge of wisdom you will usually spend more mana than you get back against a single mob as long as you're not just auto-attacking (I usually use seal/judge, HotR, holy shield, maybe exorcism).

Better glyphs, I know other classes have sucky ones too but it can be seen which classes/specs had well thought of glyphs and which ones didn't. I'd say our's weren't part of the lucky group.

Some way of dealing with silences/mana drains.

Some anti-caster abilities aside from letting them bash our face in until DPS kills them.

Reliable interrupt that doesn't need 3 talent points and still ends up mediocre.

Stamina equality.

RF that can't be dispelled/turned off EVER!!!! :)
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Postby Snake-Aes » Fri Oct 31, 2008 5:18 am

Tbolt wrote:I agree that I'm still waiting for my fun talents. I would also love to have the synergy of a prot warrior and how their abilities/talents work off each other, how using ability X can give proc Y and so on. That stuff is fun. Most of our stuff is static and is a straight % added to ability X. Some Ideas:

-It'd be great if ShoR had a secondary function, like how HotR procs seals or how the warrior's shield bash eats up the target's buffs. Maybe ShoR could daze, stun, silence, or proc judgements (+ some modifier off BV maybe?).
-Auras are improved, but still kind of crappy...it'd be great if they could make them functional so that changing them around during the fight would help us out. There is so much room for improvement and cool ideas there. Right now it's just fire and forget.
-Allowing us to use some of our demon/undead only spells on other things would be great too. Ever since the patch, I've fallen in love with Holy Wrath when fighting UD/demons because it's so useful. Even if it's at a reduced effectiveness and unusable in pvp, they would be very effective for tanking.


A charge isn't a big issue for me but since they all got ranged taunts and warriors have a silencing version of our Avenger's shield, why can't we have one?

More DPS/threat!!! We need it from what I've seen in comparison to other tanks. And also need it for soloing in addition to more mana regen since we can't always AoE tank mobs due to casters or other players in an area. Even with BoSanc, unless you're using seal/judge of wisdom you will usually spend more mana than you get back against a single mob as long as you're not just auto-attacking (I usually use seal/judge, HotR, holy shield, maybe exorcism).

Better glyphs, I know other classes have sucky ones too but it can be seen which classes/specs had well thought of glyphs and which ones didn't. I'd say our's weren't part of the lucky group.

Some way of dealing with silences/mana drains.

Some anti-caster abilities aside from letting them bash our face in until DPS kills them.

Reliable interrupt that doesn't need 3 talent points and still ends up mediocre.

Stamina equality.

RF that can't be dispelled/turned off EVER!!!! :)
Shield Bash != Shield Slam
Shield bash is the lolshutup interrupt and Shield Slam is the rawrthreatz move.


Auras being actively used like regular spells? BOO >.> An Aura is exactly that, an aura. It's there and it's working. They're gonna make them a lil more flexible by putting them on a 1 second GCD, unlinked from non-aura spells. I read an idea once about a spell that would cause different effects based on the aura you had active. THAT's awesomesauce but I don't see it coming =(
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Postby Enkal » Fri Oct 31, 2008 5:45 am

Would be interesting if RF could be like a toggle instead, a bit like an aura in game function or a stance or a form.

Warrior goes into defensive stance, druid go into bear form, pally goes into RF <insert catchy word here>.

Very low or no mana cost, cant be dispelled.

That's what I'd love to have. :) Or dispellable bear form or dispellable defensive stance. :twisted:
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Postby tbolt » Fri Oct 31, 2008 5:47 am

Snake-Aes wrote:Shield Bash != Shield Slam
Shield bash is the lolshutup interrupt and Shield Slam is the rawrthreatz move.


Auras being actively used like regular spells? BOO >.> An Aura is exactly that, an aura. It's there and it's working. They're gonna make them a lil more flexible by putting them on a 1 second GCD, unlinked from non-aura spells. I read an idea once about a spell that would cause different effects based on the aura you had active. THAT's awesomesauce but I don't see it coming =(


Shield slam, bash whichever, the point was to have a secondary effect so it's not just a "press this button to generate x amount of threat" ability.

And auras being more interactive would be a fun aspect added to tanking. If you're happy with just sitting there and spamming rotations good on ya, OP asked what we want and I would like some new fun mechanics. I didn't say to make it a spammable ability that would just get worked into a rotation. I did read that idea about a spell that worked off the auras a while back, and that's along the lines of what I was thinking.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Fri Oct 31, 2008 5:52 am

Tbolt wrote:
Snake-Aes wrote:Shield Bash != Shield Slam
Shield bash is the lolshutup interrupt and Shield Slam is the rawrthreatz move.


Auras being actively used like regular spells? BOO >.> An Aura is exactly that, an aura. It's there and it's working. They're gonna make them a lil more flexible by putting them on a 1 second GCD, unlinked from non-aura spells. I read an idea once about a spell that would cause different effects based on the aura you had active. THAT's awesomesauce but I don't see it coming =(


Shield slam, bash whichever, the point was to have a secondary effect so it's not just a "press this button to generate x amount of threat" ability.

Shield Slam is exactly that: press this button to generate x amount of threat. Can't compare ShoR with Bash, it's analogous to slam.
Tbolt wrote:And auras being more interactive would be a fun aspect added to tanking. If you're happy with just sitting there and spamming rotations good on ya, OP asked what we want and I would like some new fun mechanics. I didn't say to make it a spammable ability that would just get worked into a rotation. I did read that idea about a spell that worked off the auras a while back, and that's along the lines of what I was thinking.
that's good stuff.I'd rather not have more buttons to press than I do currently though. We're already gcd-tight and got quite a few more potential things to watch. H-Sacrifice is always on CD if i'm tanking something with more than tank-damage, for example. I'm too selfish! ALL DAMAGE MUST BE MINE! MOAR!!!
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Postby moduspwnens » Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:02 am

Enkal wrote:Would be interesting if RF could be like a toggle instead, a bit like an aura in game function or a stance or a form.

Warrior goes into defensive stance, druid go into bear form, pally goes into RF <insert catchy word here>.

Very low or no mana cost, cant be dispelled.


I'm pretty sure that's what's called a flavor difference. All other tanks have X, and Prot Paladins have something that's clearly inferior to X, but not enough that it's going to matter a lot alone. See: Interrupt, Taunt, Health, Glyphs.
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Postby Sharlos » Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:48 am

moduspwnens wrote:
Enkal wrote:Would be interesting if RF could be like a toggle instead, a bit like an aura in game function or a stance or a form.

Warrior goes into defensive stance, druid go into bear form, pally goes into RF <insert catchy word here>.

Very low or no mana cost, cant be dispelled.


I'm pretty sure that's what's called a flavor difference. All other tanks have X, and Prot Paladins have something that's clearly inferior to X, but not enough that it's going to matter a lot alone. See: Interrupt, Taunt, Health, Glyphs.


RF should make you faintly glow. WTS tasty flavour.
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Postby Widdox » Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:03 am

Bobness wrote:I think it's more of a "What do we want from the new forum"


I have to agree. I'm not going to be running over there and demanding a bunch of changes. I'm fairly happy where we are. (Except the nerf to judgement which lowers my TPS. They already said they would look into that, and SO FAR ghostcrawler has a pretty good record of keeping his word.
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Postby Arnock » Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:08 am

I would LOVE for something to be done with reckoning

it's one of the more 'fun' talents in the tree, and it has the potential to really help our single target threat and dps


I'd change it to be a chance on melee to instantly strike the target with weapon damage as holy damage, sort of a windfury

make it require one handed weapons so it's not too attractive for ret
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Postby Danth » Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:16 am

"RF should make you faintly glow."

No. My character already looks like a neon billboard.

We ought to generate comparable threat to the other tanks, but damage doesn't have to be equal. We're defensive, not offensive fighters. Our overall damage output means almost nothing in the overall scheme of things. If you disagree with that, you might be playing a tank for the wrong reasons. I don't know about some of you, but I've been playing tank characters in online role-playing games for better than ten years. Groups don't invite tanks for their damage, but for their threat and defensive capabilities.

We have plenty of 'fun' abilities. I don't understand that complaint. If you don't like the class as-is, one or two new abilities won't change that. In fact we probably have too many abilities already--game's getting sort of button-mashy. We *are* missing an 11-point talent, though. It's going to be something that benefits Protection without adding too much benefit to the other two trees. I'd prefer to wait and see the area where we need the most help tanking stuff at 80 before asking for anything specific (a single-target taunt is an obvious possibility).

Asking for aura mechanics might be a mixed blessing--because it might end up locking you into using one aura exclusively. For example, Vanguard tied the armor aura into the defensive stance--basically, imagine if turning on Devotion Aura also put Righteous Fury on you. While I liked the general design, it had the consequence of making the other available auras essentially worthless for tanking. I'm not saying new aura mechanics *can't* work, but changes have to be well-thought.

I'd like a health boost too. That I agree with unconditionally. Health matters because it's about the only stat that most non-tank players understand, and we're disadvantaged in this regard.

Reckoning could use some work, agreed.


What would *I* like?

Normal-looking weapons. Silvery, normal-looking armor. I want to actually like the way my character looks, instead of thinking it looks like something out of some kid's comic book. Warcraft is the only role-playing game I've ever played where my character looked better at level 20 than at the level cap. Put in some more plausible options for the folks who dislike the 'stylized' (to be polite) style. I'm largely content with my Warcraft Paladin otherwise.

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Postby Torquemada » Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:27 am

I would like them to change Avenger's Shield's worthless stun into Heroic Throw+Gag Order's Silence/Interrupt effect. I'd like them to change the interrupt from Hammer of Justice into something that I don't have to spend 3 points to make mediocre instead of worthless. I'd like my DPS to be on par with a Warrior tank, not low because of the high coefficient of RF.

I'd also appreciate a Glyph or two that's truly epic, ala Revenge and the Charge ones that just so frickin' useful on my Warrior tank.
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Postby Sabindeus » Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:37 am

Man I already answered this question.

Check this thread
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/26/1206508 ... happy.html
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