Mother and Illidan

Naj'entus, Supremus, Akama, Gorefiend, Gurtogg Bloodboil, RoS, Sharaz, Council, Illidan

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, fiend

Postby caboom » Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:41 am

Dendrah wrote:We had 2 tries on Illidan yesterday. Both times we went to P2 and died :)


P2 will be a bitch for now until you figure how to call out the beams for the flame tanks, and until they figure out how the mobs are best kited so the raid dmg is null.
Image
User avatar
caboom
 
Posts: 562
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 4:06 am
Location: Romania

Postby Dendrah » Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:43 am

For now I'll eb happy to see them actually pick them up and drag them around slightly decent. Also a raid nicely dividing in groups would be ace.

Yes I know my guild sounds like a bunch of morrons. Sometimes they are.
Image
Dendrah
 
Posts: 398
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:07 pm

Postby samsara » Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:57 am

Dendrah wrote:Yes I know my guild sounds like a bunch of morrons. Sometimes they are.


I think that nearly every guild is the same -> We call our raid sometims "a bunch of drunken and stoned keyboard dyslexics".

Short story from yesterday's raid (which was quite funny, i had to mute myself in ts as i got a laughflash XD). Starting the way from Felmyst to Eredartwins. The first time we see eredartwins ...

Our raidleader: Ok guy's. All range dd's and healers should stand here at this border.
... BAM ... one guy fall down ... -> whipe
Our raidleader: Ok guy's, take care when jumping on this border
... Bam ... another guy fall down .... -> whipe
Our raidleader: Hmmm, ok bastards, try to go backwards onto this border
.... Bam ... -> whipe
Our raidleader: What happend now????
Schaman: Uuuppss, sorry, hit my auto-runkey :)
Our raidleader: Take care people ....
... Bam ... -> whipe
Our raidleader: ???
Member: this bastard hustled me down -.-
..... and so on ..


After 6 whipes we finaly started our first try :)
Another 3 or four whipes later we started our second Try.
All in one we had 3 try's and about 12-15 whipes in 3 Hours that evening. but it was massive fun.
Image
samsara
 
Posts: 207
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 6:17 am

Postby caboom » Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:57 am

Dendrah wrote:For now I'll eb happy to see them actually pick them up and drag them around slightly decent. Also a raid nicely dividing in groups would be ace.

Yes I know my guild sounds like a bunch of morrons. Sometimes they are.


hahaha the positioning is not so hard, practice before hand , and mark 4 ppl to act as guides to where the 4 groups should stand on the grate thingie(like in this pic, group numbers don't have to be strict, just make sure there aren't less than 3 ppl in one group at any time, and yes melee needs to be standing in one of the groups more or less at any given time), those marked ppl need to be standing a 3-4 ig feet away from the edge of the grate.

The flame tanks need to learn with practice, it's nothing u can do about it, they could however try to establish and practice kite paths on dry before you start the fight. Having 4 ppl marked in 4 groups also helps the flame tanks have a better idea about where they are and when to turn their flame around.
Image
User avatar
caboom
 
Posts: 562
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 4:06 am
Location: Romania

Postby ShaiHulud » Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:20 am

To prove my point that BT was a joke I did a pug on my shadow priest this week healing as holy spec with "okay" holy gear. We cleared all the way to Mother Shazz only wiping there due to no shadow resist on everyone buy 1 person and slow dps. We took her to 5% quite a few times but didn't manage a kill. RoS not a single kick was right. We had a rogue tank it for most of P2 and still 1 shot it. No constructs were done right on Gorefiend and we still 1 shot it. At one point we had 8 constructs in the raid beating on people. I then reassemble the raid ID on Monday and went in there with a bunch of my guilds alts and some /2ers plus some friends of mine in a pvp guild. Everybody probabaly had an ilevel on par with t5 with a couple mixed in main raiders who hadn't gotten saved last week. Shazz went down without a hitch due to the dps increase from people not sucking. IC took about 5 pulls to get the new mage tank to understand how to pull. Illidan gave us a couple woes in p2 with me and the other flame tank being completely new. He still does eyebeam. In fact he eye beamed me right at the start of one of the p2s and I couldn't see it and got hit. But we killed him in 5 tries. One of my guilds alt rogues got an OH glaive lol. But yea, BT is a joke.
Image
^The new WoTLK Main
Image
^Old TBC main
ShaiHulud
 
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:45 am

Postby Stilgarr » Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:45 am

ShaiHulud wrote:But yea, BT is a joke.


Yes and no

Tbh others have said enough times now but for some reason you still feel like having a go at the ones who had not seen it before the nerf to the bosses / mobs.

Yes the fight itself is easy and quicker than what I think it would of been before the patch. However, the fires can still drop a tank sharpish if healers are asleep / lagging / crap, the beams can still catch people unawares as you yourself found out. A 'lock who has never tanked and just chucked in at the deep end can take a few tries to get the hang of it.

They changed the health and DPS of the bosses but they did not change the fight.
T5 / Badge geared guilds still have to learn and get used to the fight and phases, you dont. They dont have the kit you had from continually wiping the way upto 2.4 Illidan, they got there much faster due to the nerfs.

So yes BT is a joke if you have the kit from before the patch, farmed it while running SWP and generally know the place backwards.

No BT aint a joke if you suddenly went from Naj / Supremus one week to Council / Illidan the next, the progression is too fast to get kit to "easily" handle the fights.
Doubt any of the guilds hitting Illidan after the patch had any fire res kit stored in the GB incase they got there before Wrath.


I'd of loved to of seen the fight before the nerf but we were just short on time due to the relaxed way the guild works. We dropped Illidan a couple of days after, was not dead easy like you made out, but was nowhere near as hard as it should of been.
Image
Stilgarr
 
Posts: 107
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:51 am
Location: Leeds UK

Postby Dendrah » Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:12 am

I second Stilgarr completely.

If I see we needed 2.5 nights and 30 wipes to learn people not to stand in fires, blizzards or consecrations... These guys never saw any decent raiding stuf. They can't even grab the simple idea of "don't stand in the fire". BT is the perfect place to learn them what raiding is all about. A good learningground for Naxx in WotLK
Image
Dendrah
 
Posts: 398
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:07 pm

Postby Frickit » Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:27 am

Dendrah wrote:I second Stilgarr completely.

If I see we needed 2.5 nights and 30 wipes to learn people not to stand in fires, blizzards or consecrations... These guys never saw any decent raiding stuf. They can't even grab the simple idea of "don't stand in the fire". BT is the perfect place to learn them what raiding is all about. A good learningground for Naxx in WotLK


also consider that we dont have forever to learn the instance. We have cleared all of BT in a week with a lot of folks brand new to the place. So faster and easier yea...without challenge? I dont think so. It took us two nights to down Illidan. To me that is a job well done and nothing to be diminished because council didnt take 20 mins and gorefiend's constructs didnt wipe the raid. We literally have days to clear out, get some fun gear and maybe see a little sunwell. You had months on end.

also I realize its silly to defend this and people should be able to get advice on this thread still if they need it.
Image
Frickit
 
Posts: 1356
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:34 pm

Postby ShaiHulud » Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:26 am

Frickit wrote:
Dendrah wrote:I second Stilgarr completely.

If I see we needed 2.5 nights and 30 wipes to learn people not to stand in fires, blizzards or consecrations... These guys never saw any decent raiding stuf. They can't even grab the simple idea of "don't stand in the fire". BT is the perfect place to learn them what raiding is all about. A good learningground for Naxx in WotLK


also consider that we dont have forever to learn the instance. We have cleared all of BT in a week with a lot of folks brand new to the place. So faster and easier yea...without challenge? I dont think so. It took us two nights to down Illidan. To me that is a job well done and nothing to be diminished because council didnt take 20 mins and gorefiend's constructs didnt wipe the raid. We literally have days to clear out, get some fun gear and maybe see a little sunwell. You had months on end.

also I realize its silly to defend this and people should be able to get advice on this thread still if they need it.


Alright well for those needing advice past 3.0 here you go:

Mother Shazz - Dps the boss and run away from each other when you're teleported. Never run near the group or near the melee.
Illidari Council - DPS the paladin. Interrupt Circle of Healing and Divine Wrath. If you're tanking the rogue he always spawns right around where he vanishes make sure to melee him fast and hard ifs spell immune when he pops back up.
Illidan: DPS hard. P2 stay out of eyebeams and try to neatly kite the elementals so you don't risk standing in fire. P3-5 Dps the boss while spread out. If you do it fast enough no demon forms. Free epix/legendaries.
Image
^The new WoTLK Main
Image
^Old TBC main
ShaiHulud
 
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:45 am

Postby Frickit » Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:49 am

If you need that advice in the first place the chances are you will be getting demons...this caused us the most problems on our first attempts. Downing the demons fast enough and/or making sure you save the more important people from dying (the lock tank for example) You must be seriously on top of killing those demons.

yep, traps and totems will slow them. hunters forget sometimes though. :roll:
Last edited by Frickit on Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image
Frickit
 
Posts: 1356
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:34 pm

Postby Dendrah » Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:51 am

When I was there with my hunter we used to put heavy DPS around his area so we could get to his demon fast. Also one hunter trap between Illidan and the raid and one between Illidan and the lock helps. (Substitute with earthbindtotems if not enough hunters)
Image
Dendrah
 
Posts: 398
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:07 pm

Postby Consecrate » Fri Oct 31, 2008 1:47 am

BT IS easier, but a lot of guilds have never had to deal with the complexities of a 5 phase fight.

You should explain two phases at a time and let the guild learn it gradually, introduce new abilities as and when you have seen them.

Phase one is the "Oh hi my name is Illidan, here is my <ability removed>, cleavy healy thingy and my flame crash! Tank my in the correct way and have the mages deal with my shadow bumchums and then we progress into...

Phase two! Aka "omg could you learn to move out of the eye beams please"! Have your unfortunate tanks watch some videos, or just wipe until they've learned it. Lots of guides about how to tank it i'd imagine - never done it myself. Make sure you heal up the raid and spread them in four groups. Try enough and you'll kill them (OMG YAY!)

Phase three! Pick up Illidan and move him out, move the raid out of the grate and use that as the location to go with the fiends. Tank illidan as you did in p1 (alternate tanking right, then left, so that our little demonic chappy is roughly central so the warlock only needs to move slightly) Survive phase three and we go into...

Phase four! Aka "omg stop shooting the bloody boss and spread out" In this phase he becomes a demon, shooting shadow blasts. You must have everyone spread out so that they don't get fire blast or whatever it's called stacked on them. It does 3k damage for each person within 5 or 8 yards, I forget which. Survive the first one and then you'll get DEMON THINGIES! For the Demonthingies my guild used to stand as far away from Illidan as possible, with just the two paladin healers closer, with the warlock tank. Otherwise you can assign spots for the whole raid but I believe it to be simpler to just move as far away as possible.

Kill the demonthingies and survive the next fire blast and you've basically killed the boss, because it'll go back to phase 3.

Repeat 3 and 4 until you get to 5, which is the same as 3 and 1 except he tickles a bit harder (and you can trap him for more damage but this is almost always more trouble than it is worth - moving out of range of healers is epic fail)

Phase 4 still happens in phase 5 and honestly, either pop a trinket on the enrage or just don't worry about it. It really isn't that much of an issue.

The first time I tanked Illidan I had 17% dodge, 15% parry, 550 block value, 16k armour and 19.2k buffed hp (with imp AND CS) so trust me, he's never hit that hard to worry about the enrage!

Once you've mastered what you need to do on each phase of the fight, it becomes a comical lolboss like Kael'thas.

It's not hard at all, but you do need to learn the encounters!

Dunno if i'm being helpful at all but I am tired and I just typed some crap as I remember it.
Probably the worst named paladin ever.
Consecrate
 
Posts: 100
Joined: Sat May 31, 2008 10:03 pm

Postby Worldie » Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:07 am

With those low stats, i'd be surprised if you lived through a enrage pre-nerf.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 13432
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Postby caboom » Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:08 am

Funny way to explain it but yeah, that's pretty much it.
Image
User avatar
caboom
 
Posts: 562
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 4:06 am
Location: Romania

Postby ShaiHulud » Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:36 am

Yeah I've never tanked Illidan but with those stats you mentioned I'd say you owe your healers alot of thanks and alot of sorries for making them heal the enrages on you. I don't think we've seen an enrage post nerf but pre nerf if the tank didn't last stand/shield wall and took 2 unavoided hits he was pretty much dead. His main hand would hit our 4pc t6 tank for about 9-10k mainhand and 6-8k offhand.
Image
^The new WoTLK Main
Image
^Old TBC main
ShaiHulud
 
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:45 am

PreviousNext

Return to Black Temple

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

Who is online

In total there are 0 users online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 0 guests (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests