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Getting Blizzard out of the Seal/Judge Hole

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Postby Bobness » Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:19 am

Levantine wrote:SoR, SoV = 1 Hand Weapon only

SoC, SoB = 2 Hand Weapon only


Is a solution.. but would discount you ever being able to use SOB to tank despite how counter productive it may be to do so.
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Postby Levantine » Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:02 am

Hits two birds with one stone, in my opinion.

Stops retards from thinking Blood is a good tanking seal, and makes it sooooo much easier for Blizzard to balance seal damage.
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Postby lusisia » Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:27 am

Levantine wrote:Hits two birds with one stone, in my opinion.

Stops retards from thinking Blood is a good tanking seal, and makes it sooooo much easier for Blizzard to balance seal damage.


Well SoB WAS a good option for an opener because the Judgement would never miss. Having said that, I could never feel comfortable using SoB for tanking anything as part of the regular rotation.
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Postby Sharlos » Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:24 pm

People keep going on about all these 'simple' solutions but I've yet to see one except for maybe lev's idea.

The problem is that adjusting ret's damage isn't isolated to effecting ret.

Personally the easiest and most straight forward changes they could make is significantly reduce SoR's AP coefficient while increasing its SP coefficient. Making it very useful for Holy Pallies while making it less effective for ret and prot.

Additionally, reduce the two handed coefficient of SoV and SoR, preventing them from becoming the mainstay Ret seals, allowing the specs to be balanced seperately from one another.

That way Ret will use SoB in PvE, SoC in PvP.
Prot will use SoV while tanking, SoB or SoR in particular situations where they can't use SoV (spell reflects, CC, w/e).
Holy will use SoR while grinding/killing stuff.
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Postby Bobness » Fri Oct 31, 2008 1:24 am

Sharlos wrote:Personally the easiest and most straight forward changes they could make is significantly reduce SoR's AP coefficient while increasing its SP coefficient. Making it very useful for Holy Pallies while making it less effective for ret and prot.


Doesn't work entirely...

Ret Paladins SP will always scale better than prots, a lot better, with 4k [AP] a ret will get 1200 [SP]

That is a significant amount of [SP]

Yes having no [AP] co-efficient would make it useless for Prot

You'd need 4k Stamina to match Ret

That isn't balance that's just a solution that works in a limited way in a single scenario.

Applying a 1H limitation is also a brute force solution that in the end only masks the problem.

If you go [SP]+[AP]+[INT] for SOR you fix it
If you go [SP]+[AP]+[STA] for SOV you fix it

command & blood r fine as they r.

It is simple to fix it this way, there are ofc other ways..but your solution offers limitations only.
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Postby majiben » Fri Oct 31, 2008 1:34 am

Bobness wrote:
Sharlos wrote:Personally the easiest and most straight forward changes they could make is significantly reduce SoR's AP coefficient while increasing its SP coefficient. Making it very useful for Holy Pallies while making it less effective for ret and prot.


Doesn't work entirely...

Ret Paladins SP will always scale better than prots, a lot better, with 4k [AP] a ret will get 1200 [SP]

That is a significant amount of [SP]

Yes having no [AP] co-efficient would make it useless for Prot

You'd need 4k Stamina to match Ret

That isn't balance that's just a solution that works in a limited way in a single scenario.

Applying a 1H limitation is also a brute force solution that in the end only masks the problem.

If you go [SP]+[AP]+[INT] for SOR you fix it
If you go [SP]+[AP]+[STA] for SOV you fix it

command & blood r fine as they r.

It is simple to fix it this way, there are ofc other ways..but your solution offers limitations only.
Not to mention that it would screw over lowbie paladins who have no SP and only AP.

Honestly Holy could use a new seal in the deep holy tree. They could make that seal have an amazing SP coeffecient.
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Postby Noradin » Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:44 am

Levantine wrote:Hits two birds with one stone, in my opinion.

Stops retards from thinking Blood is a good tanking seal, and makes it sooooo much easier for Blizzard to balance seal damage.


But sometimes it is - it deals non-magic holy damage XD
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Postby Snake-Aes » Fri Oct 31, 2008 4:08 am

Noradin wrote:
Levantine wrote:Hits two birds with one stone, in my opinion.

Stops retards from thinking Blood is a good tanking seal, and makes it sooooo much easier for Blizzard to balance seal damage.


But sometimes it is - it deals non-magic holy damage XD
Sure it's non magic? I don't recall hitting with SoB when Veras had spell warding on him.

And the guy was really the ONLY place where sob was of any use for tanking. The judgment thing is kinda broken now that judgments are separate spells whose main effect is untied to the seal being used.
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Postby Amarant_Pally » Fri Oct 31, 2008 5:18 am

Snake-Aes wrote:
Noradin wrote:
Levantine wrote:Hits two birds with one stone, in my opinion.

Stops retards from thinking Blood is a good tanking seal, and makes it sooooo much easier for Blizzard to balance seal damage.


But sometimes it is - it deals non-magic holy damage XD
Sure it's non magic? I don't recall hitting with SoB when Veras had spell warding on him.

And the guy was really the ONLY place where sob was of any use for tanking. The judgment thing is kinda broken now that judgments are separate spells whose main effect is untied to the seal being used.


Pre-3.0, Judging Blood did not work when he was magic immune (tested this myself many times, despite reading otherwise...a few healers even died because of this ^_^). However, melee swings that resulted in SoBlood procs worked.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Fri Oct 31, 2008 5:30 am

Amarant_Pally wrote:
Snake-Aes wrote:
Noradin wrote:
Levantine wrote:Hits two birds with one stone, in my opinion.

Stops retards from thinking Blood is a good tanking seal, and makes it sooooo much easier for Blizzard to balance seal damage.


But sometimes it is - it deals non-magic holy damage XD
Sure it's non magic? I don't recall hitting with SoB when Veras had spell warding on him.

And the guy was really the ONLY place where sob was of any use for tanking. The judgment thing is kinda broken now that judgments are separate spells whose main effect is untied to the seal being used.


Pre-3.0, Judging Blood did not work when he was magic immune (tested this myself many times, despite reading otherwise...a few healers even died because of this ^_^). However, melee swings that resulted in SoBlood procs worked.
Yeah it's the reason I tanked him with the Decapitator.
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Postby Noradin » Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:49 am

Amarant_Pally wrote:
Snake-Aes wrote:
Noradin wrote:
Levantine wrote:Hits two birds with one stone, in my opinion.

Stops retards from thinking Blood is a good tanking seal, and makes it sooooo much easier for Blizzard to balance seal damage.


But sometimes it is - it deals non-magic holy damage XD
Sure it's non magic? I don't recall hitting with SoB when Veras had spell warding on him.

And the guy was really the ONLY place where sob was of any use for tanking. The judgment thing is kinda broken now that judgments are separate spells whose main effect is untied to the seal being used.


Pre-3.0, Judging Blood did not work when he was magic immune (tested this myself many times, despite reading otherwise...a few healers even died because of this ^_^). However, melee swings that resulted in SoBlood procs worked.


It still is this way.
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Postby Amarant_Pally » Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:55 am

Noradin wrote:It still is this way.


Yes, but the flow of conversation shows some confusion somewhere, that I was clearing up. ;)
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