Review my possible beta post re: Ret PVP

[uke]

Link to thread is here. Feel free to jump in.

http://www.retpaladin.com/warcraft/foru ... f=2&t=1340

[cordelia]

However, with the recent nerf to JotW, will it be enough to prevent going OOM in a chaotic PVP environment? I know that the standard rotation of Crusader Strike, Judgement, and Divine Storm can be maintained indefinitely, ...

This is blatantly not true. Without Divine Plea or other raid buffs, a ret paladin CAN NOT maintain this rotation indefinitely. I have shown time and again in the other thread that GC was wrong when she said this. Not only math, but simply going out and solo'ing will show this. Hell, go take a ret paladin and beat on a training dummy. You will go OOM. Almost every anecdotal counter-example or mathematical counter-example has included raid buffs. You will not have raid buffs when solo'ing, in 5-mans, or specifically, in PvP.

On top of that, pile up your other comments requiring BoF, Cleanse, FoL, Bubble, BoP, etc., and you have serious mana issues w.r.t. to Ret paladin NON-raid sustainability, especially in PvP, as you stress in your post.

[majiben]

Seems the devs are looking into Mana burns and the like

Q u o t e:
Of all the numerous claims and complaints about the changes to Ret, there is only 1 that holds true in my opinion. And that is the ability to oom a Ret Pally, and causing them to have no way of ever getting mana back without drinking. There is a mana lockout with Ret pallys when they don't have enough mana to do a Judgement. It takes like 25 seconds of natural regen to have enough mana to Judge to get some mana back. This is a major problem atm.

(I even made a suggestion that Judgements shouldn't cost any mana to prevent this from happening)

PS. From my level 80 Beta tests, Ret is still the highest burst Melee class in the game by a long shot.

Inc 400 posts claiming the opposite.

I agree with almost all of that. IMHO Ret’s damage is fine, mana drains may be a problem, and an oom paladin is in trouble. We're discussing the last two issues.

We will do some tests and analysis of whether Ret is too susceptible to mana drains in PvP since that seems to be something the community is worried about.

[uke]

Seems the devs are looking into Mana burns and the like

Q u o t e:
Of all the numerous claims and complaints about the changes to Ret, there is only 1 that holds true in my opinion. And that is the ability to oom a Ret Pally, and causing them to have no way of ever getting mana back without drinking. There is a mana lockout with Ret pallys when they don't have enough mana to do a Judgement. It takes like 25 seconds of natural regen to have enough mana to Judge to get some mana back. This is a major problem atm.

(I even made a suggestion that Judgements shouldn't cost any mana to prevent this from happening)

PS. From my level 80 Beta tests, Ret is still the highest burst Melee class in the game by a long shot.

Inc 400 posts claiming the opposite.

I agree with almost all of that. IMHO Ret’s damage is fine, mana drains may be a problem, and an oom paladin is in trouble. We're discussing the last two issues.

We will do some tests and analysis of whether Ret is too susceptible to mana drains in PvP since that seems to be something the community is worried about.

It's encouraging that they're looking at it. I think I also saw a similar blue response concerning how easy it is to shut a pally down with dispel effects, and making it harder to do.

I'm wondering if I should limit my OP to just weaknesses vs ranged kiters?

[majiben]

Keep it the same, it's a good summary. I was just showing some updates.