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One solution to rule them all!

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Postby Corman » Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:21 am

Rhî wrote:
Biscotti wrote:Very well thought out, though JotJ is already worth taking for the attack speed debuff.


-20% Attack Speed is good, yes. But it's not worth a T10 talent. The idea to add more seal and judgement damage there would also fit the 'one, two deep fun prot talents'. More damage is always fun.


I completely disagree with JotJ not worth being a T10. Like the idea and suggested similar recently. Doesn't matter what talent you add it on to. But bosses primarily deal physical damage. This SIGNIFICANTLY lessens incoming damage. Not as kewl as thunderclap on aoe trash but.... well.... aoe trash is aoe trash and frankly I've been king of that and didn't need any help. Thunderjudge > Thunderclap for single target because no effort to keep it up.
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Postby Macha » Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:23 am

The prot part is a very good idea. I approve.

As for holy...there really should be a way for holy to turn Hammer of Wrath into a 1.5s(or 2s) cast time nuke spell that lacks the HP limitation.
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Postby Corman » Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:34 am

I like the HoW idea.... dont know holy tree enough but add a talent to remove its health limitation a certain percentage so that prot and ret can't get it, just use preexisting talents that they'd want that match the flavor.
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Postby Sabindeus » Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:47 am

I really don't think having deep tree talents unnerf core damage abilities is the right way to go here. What this means is you're condemning anyone who doesn't spec deep in a tree to have mediocre damage.

What I'd much rather do is nerf the damage boosts in Ret and unnerf Seal/Judgement damage.
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Postby ziggyunderslashone » Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:01 am

Sabindeus wrote:I really don't think having deep tree talents unnerf core damage abilities is the right way to go here. What this means is you're condemning anyone who doesn't spec deep in a tree to have mediocre damage.

What I'd much rather do is nerf the damage boosts in Ret and unnerf Seal/Judgement damage.

If you actually increased seal/judge damage across the board, reduced the RF multiplier and general ret damage to match, everyone would be happy. Maybe blizz is overcomplicating things.
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Postby Candiru » Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:03 am

Baseline sheath of light's spelldamage by increasing AP coeff by 30% of SpellCoeff.
Then bump up Spelldamage coeffs to help holy and prot while not affecting ret.

Simple!
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Postby Sabindeus » Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:37 am

ziggyunderslashone wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:I really don't think having deep tree talents unnerf core damage abilities is the right way to go here. What this means is you're condemning anyone who doesn't spec deep in a tree to have mediocre damage.

What I'd much rather do is nerf the damage boosts in Ret and unnerf Seal/Judgement damage.

If you actually increased seal/judge damage across the board, reduced the RF multiplier and general ret damage to match, everyone would be happy. Maybe blizz is overcomplicating things.


I don't think the RF multiplier needs to decrease.
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Re: One solution to rule them all!

Postby Galoheart » Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:44 am

Katamai wrote:We all know prot got nerfed due to how Blizzard decided to balance ret. We all know SoV/SoCor is steadily losing a place in our rotation (in terms of threat and DPS it generates). We all know JoW/SoW/JoL/SoL that were important for our soloing got hit bad.

So this is an easy way out.

Judgements of the Just
Increases damage and effect of your Seals and Judgements by 20/40% (or 15/30%, numbers need crunching) when a one-handed melee weapon is equipped.
Your Judgement spells also reduce the melee attack speed of the target by 20%.

PvP balance issues - none due to 1H weapon requirement and its spot in prot tree.
Utility - prot's JoW/JoL will be better than ret's. Prot will be DPSing when not tanking. 1H weapom requirement might be an issue here but with ShoR at 80 our DPS should be good enough or better than 2Her in prot spec. This secures us from being forced into holy and makes us viable off tanks through mana regen utility. Won't compete with ret's utility nor challenge other mana batteries but will hold its ground.
Mana regen - almost back to what we had pre nerf. Soloing and OTing once again possible.
Seal and Judgement dmg - once again important for our threat/DPS rotation. Back to roots.

JotJ will finally become worthy of their spot deep in prot tree and will make sure our seals/judgements dmg becomes independent from Ret seal/judgement balancing.

EDIT: Something for our holy brothers in arms. Copy from page 2.
EDIT: Increased dmg by 50% for SoR, included JoR in the description.

Judgements of the Pure
Your Judgement spells increase your casting and melee haste by 2/4/6/8/10% for 1 min and damage caused by your Seal and Judgment of Righteousness by 10/20/30/40/50%.

Not a direct copy but should work. It is also limited to SoR since that should be Holy's DPS seal. Avoids 1h/2h distinction but also limits talent's spectrum. Melee haste already present in the talent also works in synergy with SoR's "dmg on hit" aspect.

Thoughts?



Interesting Idea. Since someone had asked for it to be suggested via the in game feedback which probably has a good change of being read. I opened the Blue suggestion feedback and posted the entire post for what its worth to consider the idea with a feedback link to this thread post. Hope it helps.
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Postby Bobness » Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:46 am

meh I just tested Holy DPS on a 70 Dummy

[AP] 823 [SP] 1123

SOR & judge with holy shock... infinate mana 450 DPS.

Same spec swapped to Ret DPS Gear with With Tank Shield & 1 H DPS weapon

[AP] 2135 [SP] 63 swapped SOR for SOB DPS went up to 550

not pretty at all

In fact Wearing Full Healing gear & changing a healing Weapon to a DPS Weapon using SOB still resulted in 460 DPS..

SOR flat out fails for Holy
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Postby ziggyunderslashone » Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:08 am

Sabindeus wrote:I don't think the RF multiplier needs to decrease.

If we want increased personal dps to the same level as other tanks, then it needs to be lower to match the increased output.

Personally I'm not overly concerned, but I know many are.
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Postby amadiss » Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:09 am

The very concept of balancing each talent with its "twin talent" from the other class is absurd.

We dont even have the same talents, a balanced net result is ALL THAT MATTERS.

Otherwise we would have to give shields to Druids and DKs
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Re: One solution to rule them all!

Postby Fridmarr » Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:13 am

Katamai wrote:
Judgements of the Just
Increases damage and effect of your Seals and Judgements by 20/40% (or 15/30%, numbers need crunching) when a one-handed melee weapon is equipped.


Thief!
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Re: One solution to rule them all!

Postby Katamai » Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:04 am

Fridmarr wrote:Thief!


oO

I wouldn't even touch you dwarf, let alone steal from you! I'm allergic to hair :(

PS Did you suggest this already somewhere? :shock:
I thought of it last night before falling asleep :(
I... was... once... called... Ashbringer...
My... son... watched... me... die...
KILL... THEM... ALL!
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Re: One solution to rule them all!

Postby Fridmarr » Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:09 am

Katamai wrote:
Fridmarr wrote:Thief!


oO

I wouldn't even touch you dwarf, let alone steal from you! I'm allergic to hair :(

PS Did you suggest this already somewhere? :shock:
I thought of it last night before falling asleep :(


Yes and no, it's buried in another thread and not as specific. Mostly I was being facetious.

I have no hair...anywhere.

/lick
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Re: One solution to rule them all!

Postby Katamai » Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:15 am

Fridmarr wrote:Yes and no, it's buried in another thread and not as specific. Mostly I was being facetious.

I have no hair...anywhere.

/lick


No hair? I KNEW IT!

This IS you! <_<

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