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Paladin Tanking Item Points - PTIP [gear ranking system]

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Postby ferthadin » Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:31 am

Widdox wrote:We need to make sure we add something in for diminishing returns on dodge and parry. Cause at some point parry ratin will be better than dodge rating. I know it is on my gearing.



Diminishing returns on parry/dodge is only the tip of the iceburg. How about attack speed of the boss? Against fast attacking bosses, block value becomes more valuable, and against slower hitting bosses, less valuable. Or how about % of the boss's damage that is spell damage, making stamina more valuable. Or what about an encounter where EH is more important, vs. an encounter where avoidance/mitigation is more important?

Frankly, it's impossible to come up with a perfect equation to rank gear, there's so much that's situational depending on things you just can't enter into a spreadsheet. You can't directly compare armor, stamina, dodge, parry, block rating, block value etc. Because they all gain or lose value depending on a number of different variables.

For this reason...I prefer a straightforward approach to ranking gear (using the base blizzard item values), then comparing more of the details by eye.
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Postby lusisia » Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:39 am

This is going to sound kind of silly but, with the gear homoginization, isn't this sort of a moot point?

I mean, the choices are tank plate vs. tier gear. The only luxury really comes from trinkets and weapon and I would argue not even weapon.
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Postby EvilNuff » Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:07 pm

While I appreciate all the effort you have gone to with this. I think its WAY overcomplicated. Seriously.

Threat is a non-issue with 3.0. Gearing for threat is silly and is honestly just not worth bothering with outside of your weapon. You need to reach uncritable defense but that's a simple defense number based on your level.

Assuming you have reached uncritable, all your gear is avoidance vs hps. That is it as a tank. So all the avoidance information can be combined into an avoidance number and hps can be added on and there you go. That's all you need.
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Postby lusisia » Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:56 pm

EvilNuff wrote:While I appreciate all the effort you have gone to with this. I think its WAY overcomplicated. Seriously.

Threat is a non-issue with 3.0. Gearing for threat is silly and is honestly just not worth bothering with outside of your weapon. You need to reach uncritable defense but that's a simple defense number based on your level.

Assuming you have reached uncritable, all your gear is avoidance vs hps. That is it as a tank. So all the avoidance information can be combined into an avoidance number and hps can be added on and there you go. That's all you need.


I wouldn't argue that threat is a non issue. If the gear doesn't scale in threat stats, we're going to be in a world of hurt.
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Postby Dragonzbane » Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:26 pm

lusisia wrote:
I wouldn't argue that threat is a non issue. If the gear doesn't scale in threat stats, we're going to be in a world of hurt.


I don't understand why more people don't understand the above fact.


Looking at WotLK plate gear the other day made me realize that there a a couple of different groups of plate with different stat allocations.

So far I've seen:

Def/Block Rating/Block Value

Def/Dodge/Parry

Def/Parry/Expertise

Def/Expertise

Def/Hit Rating


That's 5 Different types and there may even be more if you include rings/neck/capes because they all have increase Armor Value options.

5 types vs 2 types, looks to me like it's already complicated and if this list can help organize things I'm all for it.
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Postby EvilNuff » Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:50 am

lusisia wrote:...
I wouldn't argue that threat is a non issue. If the gear doesn't scale in threat stats, we're going to be in a world of hurt.


Ok let me ammend my statement then. In beta, from 1-80 in most of the 5 man instances leveling up and the level 80 ones and Naxx with leveled toons and pre-made toons in pvp gear...threat is a non-issue.

Honestly y'all are just making it WAY more complicated than it needs to be. Get to uncritable (not necessarily an easy task...) and then go avoidance/mitigation/hps.
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