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Best spec - leveling in instances - protection

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Best spec - leveling in instances - protection

Postby Bhall » Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:29 pm

Hello,

me and several of my guildies decided that we are going to level up in instances in WotLK. Our server Ravencrest-EU is pretty full, so it will probably be better.

Everyone in the group has best possible Sunwell gear or very close.

I am going to tank in this group, other members will be hunter, mage, rogue and resto shaman.

I am wondering what spec is gonna be the best. Ofc 51 protection, the base is gonna be the same, but there are small differences between other talents, and i dont know which one is the best. Again, we are very overgeared and i want maximum damage and threat.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?paladin ... 1133312301

Deciding between this spec and similar spec with 5 points in holy for SotP.

Important questions are:

heart of the crusader vs. improved BoM
Conviction vs. SotP
Crusade and Sanctified seals vs. SotP

Atm, i think best would be 0/51/10 (improved BoM over HotC), then on 71-75 5 points to conviction, then on 76-78 3 points to crusade and then last 2 points to 2 sanctified seals.

Thanks in advance

Bhall
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Postby majiben » Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:38 pm

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Postby Bhall » Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:56 pm

I just did, thx. One thing, reckoning, i dont rly have any better talents to put the points to, for the leveling purpose, it gives me at least some extra damage, even if it will be only from white attacks. It should be up a lot since i am going to pull many mobs at the same time.
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Postby Chunes » Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:34 pm

Bhall wrote:I just did, thx. One thing, reckoning, i dont rly have any better talents to put the points to, for the leveling purpose, it gives me at least some extra damage, even if it will be only from white attacks. It should be up a lot since i am going to pull many mobs at the same time.


reckoning is next to worthless.

for a prot instance leveling build i'd go with something like this.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZ0eVA0uMteIRhoxk

extra point thrown in the ret crit debuff talent, but you can put it where you will.
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Postby Bhall » Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:11 pm

well for the purpose i want it, that means instance leveling where i am overgeared and we want to speed everythinga s much as possible, i am gonna use retribution aura, so devotion aura is useless for me, so i can just as well take it because even minimal damage increase is something.
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Postby Bk992004 » Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:36 pm

Bhall wrote:well for the purpose i want it, that means instance leveling where i am overgeared and we want to speed everythinga s much as possible, i am gonna use retribution aura, so devotion aura is useless for me, so i can just as well take it because even minimal damage increase is something.


If you have your mind made up and won't take the suggestions, why do you even post the question?
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Postby Bhall » Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:51 pm

Bk992004 wrote:
Bhall wrote:well for the purpose i want it, that means instance leveling where i am overgeared and we want to speed everythinga s much as possible, i am gonna use retribution aura, so devotion aura is useless for me, so i can just as well take it because even minimal damage increase is something.


If you have your mind made up and won't take the suggestions, why do you even post the question?


I dont have my mind made up, i want to hear Reckoning gives 0 or close to 0 damage increase so it wont help or it will give small dps increase.

But forget this, i think i have all i needed to know.
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Postby guillex » Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:56 pm

Bhall wrote:
Bk992004 wrote:
Bhall wrote:well for the purpose i want it, that means instance leveling where i am overgeared and we want to speed everythinga s much as possible, i am gonna use retribution aura, so devotion aura is useless for me, so i can just as well take it because even minimal damage increase is something.


If you have your mind made up and won't take the suggestions, why do you even post the question?


I dont have my mind made up, i want to hear Reckoning gives 0 or close to 0 damage increase so it wont help or it will give small dps increase.

But forget this, i think i have all i needed to know.


Reckoning doesn't give anything in terms of threat increase, honestly. The only thing it WAS good for was possibly getting a 5 stack of SoV up ... but seeing as the SoV dot is applied every hit, it's moot now.

Those 5 points are better off spent somewhere else. Seals of the Pure in the Holy tree is a place to look at when you're nearing 80.
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Postby Chunes » Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:02 pm

Bhall wrote:well for the purpose i want it, that means instance leveling where i am overgeared and we want to speed everythinga s much as possible, i am gonna use retribution aura, so devotion aura is useless for me, so i can just as well take it because even minimal damage increase is something.


I'd still go imp devo to let your healers be buffed. If you seriously over gear the place, then just pull 2 extra packs of mobs and let your mage AE the place while you waffleface w/ consecrate. That will speed things up much faster than reckoning ever would and you get the added fun of never going remotely close to oom w/ sanct.

there really is no reason to stay in the old paradigm of reckoning being an "ok" talent. It is undeniable shit right now and your talents are better spent in auras that enhance your group, or talents that add to your mitigation.

Also, if you outgear an instance (i.e. you are in T5, badge or better as of now), then the mobs in the first 6 instances are not going to be hitting you all that much. You will still block/parry/dodge a ton even w/ diminishing returns and negative scaling on your avoidance. Ret aura and other such reactive damage is a much smaller piece of the pie now that we have an awesome holy dot w/ SoV, more active damage/threat abilities and basically every ability being instant cast now.

tl;dr:

reckoning is shit. don't take it. adjust your play style to take advantage of the new paradigm of pally talenting.
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Postby Helpunot » Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:03 pm

Has anyone made a BLUE REPLY post about reckoning being so god awfully dumb for any tree? I could see it working as a hybrid ret / prot tank but really... who does that? WTB talent that is useful, pre bc it was questionable, now it is absolutely terrible.
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Postby Elsie » Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:01 pm

Chunes wrote:
Bhall wrote:I just did, thx. One thing, reckoning, i dont rly have any better talents to put the points to, for the leveling purpose, it gives me at least some extra damage, even if it will be only from white attacks. It should be up a lot since i am going to pull many mobs at the same time.


reckoning is next to worthless.

for a prot instance leveling build i'd go with something like this.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZ0eVA0uMteIRhoxk

extra point thrown in the ret crit debuff talent, but you can put it where you will.

Reckoning increases DPS, technically. It's just subpar for threat.

I believe WWS are showing it as a smaller, but still significant portion of our threat, which means at a 43% coefficient it's a substantial source of DPS. Considering most instances involve pulling 3-6 mobs, I'd wager you'd gain quite a bit.
Last edited by Elsie on Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby kurros » Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:09 pm

Reckoning isn't that bad, it's just over-priced. If it was 1 talent point instead of 5, it would be a great talent, maybe even too strong. There is probably a good middle ground at 2-3 points for 10-12% chance to proc.
Anyway, lets just agree to disagree. Go away, or I'll just start reporting you to the mods for being a troll. In exchange, I'll stop pointing out your stupid in public.
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Postby Helpunot » Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:09 pm

Sooo... reckoning = more just white dmg eh? I mean yeah I have seen my white dmg equal 22% of my overall dmg on KJ with muramasa... so maybe there is a little something to this. If SoR was still good, then reckoning would be pretty good still. I will not, however take it have never really liked it a whole lot. Pre 3.0 in sunwell it was fun watching threat spikes of about 2.5k on procs.
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Postby mconeone » Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:35 am

Is levelling in instances as prot anywhere comparable to questing as ret?
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Postby Chunes » Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:43 am

mconeone wrote:Is levelling in instances as prot anywhere comparable to questing as ret?


not from my experience in the beta. The instances are so short and relatively less packed w/ mobs than outland or pre-bc instances that you'd have to be clearing the instances in 15-20 min in succession for several hours to compete realistically w/ quest xp.

that and the vast majority of northrend quest hubs are designed to send you to focused "quest regions" with 3-4 quest goals located within, unlike vanilla and bc quests that were more like:

go north to do this quest,
go south to do this other quest,
oh yeah, there's some mobs over in the west for this third quest
and finally this fourth quest requires you to go to an entirely different zone all together.

thus northrend questing by and large is more efficient than your average instance farming group.

That's not to say that if you have some amazingly focused group that you will not be able to get the same xp/hr as a ret questing. But i'd say at the very least that the ret questing route is simply more fun and interesting in addition to being inherently more efficient for the average player.
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