I'm sacrificing so many stamina enchants for avoidance...

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I'm sacrificing so many stamina enchants for avoidance...

Postby John Ra » Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:19 am

Is my macro screwy or something? Am I forgetting some kind of buff besides Kings to increase my percentage?

Check out my armory. I have a ton of avoidance enchants in every piece of gear, yet I'm only at 102.3% with Kings and Holy Shield active. I will oftentimes armory other Kara tankadins, and I'm finding that they have a bunch of full stamina gems and enchants in their gear and not much extra avoidance. I can only imagine they're doing okay in Kara. Maybe some way of measuring my percentage is flawed?

I got 3 epics from the last Kara clear, and I was really hoping that these would boost my health closer to 12,000, but it's not. I'm having a hard time keep 102.4% when I switch my gear around for more stam.
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Postby Atreidies » Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:22 am

I calc'ed you at 101.87% avoidance with that healing libram equipped.

Grab a calculator if you're not sure and look at your Defenses tab. Start with 5% base chance to be missed, add the 6.53% chance to be missed gained from your Defense, add your block/parry/dodge %'s into the mix, then add 30% for Holy Shield, and an extra 5.33% with the Heroic libram which you don't have equipped.
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Postby John Ra » Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:48 am

Thanks for the response, although I'm really confused now because I just armoried 5 people who have a lot of health and it looks like they have less avoidance than I do. Am I doing something wrong? Maybe I don't need that much avoidance for Kara tanking?

Mortehl - 45.04% Avoidance - 13857 Health
Quoll - 56.49% Avoidance - 12347 Health
Lore - 58.44% Avoidance - 15257 Health
Shadowaif - 50.38% Avoidance - 14347 Health
Sabindeus - 45.29% Avoidance - 13297 Health

And me...

Genitorturer - 60.34% Avoidance - 10997 Health

So WTF?!
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Postby Neuron » Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:10 am

Not a bad gear setup for entering Kara. You're right, your HP is low, but its nothing to worry about unless you are on nightbane or perhaps prince. Nightbane is the only one in the entire instance that will give you the most trouble (and some of the harder hitting trash).

Miss from Defense: 6.52
Base Miss: 5
Dodge: 14.93
Parry: 17.53
Block: 27.88
Holy Shield: 30

Gives you -- 96.86

If you had the heroic libram, it adds 5.33 to block rating. You really need to go get this. This would put you at: 102.19. Mark of the wild + Kings will get you about another 0.5 dodge probably. A +10 defense flask will ensure you are uncrushable at this point.

You're right about low avoidance though. The people you see putting stam gems in everything do it because they can, they can afford to gem w/e because they remain uncrushable. If you are not uncrushable, forget the stam route. This unfortunately means you may need to resocket for solid stars of elune at some point once your gear gets there.

Edit: after re-reading, I wanted to point out to that avoidance means not getting hit, which only consists of dodge, parry, and miss. Block means getting hit. So your avoidance total is actually: 5 + 6.52 + 14.93 + 17.53. So you have about a 44-45% avoidance, even with kings and motw. You have the worst avoidance of all the tanks you listed.

My advice to you:
1. Upgrade your libram ASAP. Or equip it at least because your armory does not show it. Unacceptable MR. PALADIN TANK!

2. Felsteel helm is nice and all, but you really should get the badge helm. I think its another 25 badges. This will give you great stats. (Faceguard of Determination, 1129 Armor, +36 Stamina, Blue Socket, Meta Socket, Socket Bonus: +6 Stamina, Equip: Increases defense rating by 32. Equip: Increases your dodge rating by 24. Equip: Increases your shield block rating by 24. ) You get the same defense, but you get that extra 24 dodge. The 24 block rating on the helm would also allow you to switch out either the Andorm Tear or the figurine of the collosus for either violet badge or the darkmoon card: wrath trinket.

Those are your first two upgrades. Get the libram, then get the badge helm. Socket the badge helm with the +18 sta gem and a solid star of elune. I would honestly work on this all day long, running heroic mech every day. You absolutely need to get these.

3. The steamhinge is an incredible tanking neck, but your gear at this point does not support it. You have two options here. Get the neck from cenarion revered, or the back neck. Start working on this immediately after you complete the first and second step. If you are already revered with cenarion, run over the the vendor in zangar marsh and buy it immediately. (note: a good way to get to revered is to run steamvaults for the cloak until you get the cloak as well as this neck).

4. Grind scryer rep and upgrade your shoulder enchant. it will help.

5. Getting the moroes trinket and the wrynn dynasty greaves are super increases to dodge (practically all you need). Of course, you can't really expect to get these, but keep running kara for them. Then you can get rid of the adam figurine and the timewards. Also run steamvaults for the cloak. It will add even more dodge.
Last edited by Neuron on Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:13 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Vanifae » Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:12 am

Your HP looks fine.
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Postby Teah » Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:19 am

Libram of Repentance. You need it.
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Postby John Ra » Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:20 am

Neuron wrote:1. Upgrade your libram ASAP. Or equip it at least because your armory does not show it. Unacceptable MR. PALADIN TANK!


Because different types of paladin librams GROW ON TREES.

J/K, thanks for the advice. :wink:
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Postby Vanifae » Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:35 am

Libram of Repentance is pretty easy to get and will be your best friend for a long time.
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heh

Postby Mavrix » Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:05 am

Just go grind those heroics and then get the Libram of Repentance that everyone is telling you to get. It's really not optional if you're scraping to get uncrushable - it gives you 5% toward uncrushable which is not too shabby.
Luckily it's also not hard to get and it's guaranteed if you just do the heroics and collect the badges.

As far as why some people have more HP and less avoidance: shield block rating. It's mitigation, not avoidance, but still counts toward uncrushable. That and the gear ramps up a lot in terms of stam as you progress.

You're in a good place and heading a good direction for starting out kara. You should be fine and you will get better gear inside kara in time.
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Postby adese » Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:21 am

Neuron wrote:2. Felsteel helm is nice and all, but you really should get the badge helm. I think its another 25 badges. This will give you great stats. (Faceguard of Determination, 1129 Armor, +36 Stamina, Blue Socket, Meta Socket, Socket Bonus: +6 Stamina, Equip: Increases defense rating by 32. Equip: Increases your dodge rating by 24. Equip: Increases your shield block rating by 24. ) You get the same defense, but you get that extra 24 dodge. The 24 block rating on the helm would also allow you to switch out either the Andorm Tear or the figurine of the collosus for either violet badge or the darkmoon card: wrath trinket.


Actually, that helm costs 50 badges, but it well worth it IMO. The amount of stamina and avoidance it gives is quite crazy - it really helps you get to uncrushable when you are first working towards it. I can't recommend it enough.

While the T4 helm has nearly as good uncrushable-wise, it trades the block rating for spell damage. I don't know if you have access to it or not, but I would suggest using the badges helm until you can get uncrushable with the T4 helm.
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Postby John Ra » Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:54 am

I tanked my first heroic lastnight with success and got some badges! :D

Slave Pens, an easy one from what I'm told. Two wipes, both were freak accidents (rogue got spotted during a sap or patrol ran into me when I wasn't looking).

What else are some easy ones? Mechanar and Sethekk Halls?
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Postby Vanifae » Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:55 am

John Ra wrote:I tanked my first heroic lastnight with success and got some badges! :D

Slave Pens, an easy one from what I'm told. Two wipes, both were freak accidents (rogue got spotted during a sap or patrol ran into me when I wasn't looking).

What else are some easy ones? Mechanar and Sethekk Halls?

Mechanar, Underbog, Steamvault especially if you have a Warlock.
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Postby John Ra » Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:06 am

Vanifae wrote:
John Ra wrote:I tanked my first heroic lastnight with success and got some badges! :D

Slave Pens, an easy one from what I'm told. Two wipes, both were freak accidents (rogue got spotted during a sap or patrol ran into me when I wasn't looking).

What else are some easy ones? Mechanar and Sethekk Halls?

Mechanar, Underbog, Steamvault especially if you have a Warlock.


What utility does a warlock offer for CC besides chain fearing, which is dangerous...?
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Postby Baelor » Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:10 am

John Ra wrote:
Vanifae wrote:
John Ra wrote:I tanked my first heroic lastnight with success and got some badges! :D

Slave Pens, an easy one from what I'm told. Two wipes, both were freak accidents (rogue got spotted during a sap or patrol ran into me when I wasn't looking).

What else are some easy ones? Mechanar and Sethekk Halls?

Mechanar, Underbog, Steamvault especially if you have a Warlock.


What utility does a warlock offer for CC besides chain fearing, which is dangerous...?

Lots of elementals/demons in those 3 instances for them to banish.
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Postby Vanifae » Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:16 am

Plus a Warlock makes the first boss of Steamvault cake.
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