So... our 11pt talent will be...

[Worldie]

I agree we need to offer something special to get a spot

We already do, that's sanctuary.

And no, in WotLK you don't earn a spot by being a specific class, you earn it through your skill.

No matter how imbalanced paladins or warriors or whatever might be, if you will fail as player, you aren't getting any spot.

Also something a lot of people here seemb to forget, noone is going to steal the Main Tank spot from a already established Main Tank. Not because he's a warrior, simply because he's been in the guild since a LOT more than you, and they trust him eventually more than they trust you.

Yes, i'm biased because i'm our main tank, i earned that spot. When our former Main Tank (a warrior, as you might imagine) decided to quit the game due to RL, our GM simply asked me (and actually, another warrior) to make a 2 tank MT system, and we accepted. Since that warrior quitted as well, i'm our only one.
HOWEVER
if Nessu never had quitted, i would have had exactly 0 chances to get the spot i am in now, no matter how skilled it was.



What people complain about is the attitude that blizzard shows toward paladins, rather than the actual class effectiveness. In WotLK we are perfectly fine as Main Tanks, much more than in TBC, and i'd say on par as warriors. It just sucks that we're just "oh if you happen to be broken, then i guess we should fix you, but we think you are fine", nevermind the over nine thousand WWS reports from others.

[Io.Draco]

The Main Tank concept is geting old , it was created pre-tbc when only warriors could tank , and well back then it also did matter alot of how geared the guy taking the damage on the boss was , as stuff did generaly have alot of tank damage

They have shifted from that attitude though

Also Worldie goota ask , as the MT in your guild do you get prio on items? or what?

[Fridmarr]

Sanctuary takes perfectly care of all our mana, and 1kish absorbed damage where things hit for 7k+ aint going to affect your mana regeneration.

Agree about the damage absorbed... but Sanctuary won't take care of all your mana issues.

It will however help maintain a minimal rotation in isolation.

Divine Plea will take care of mana along with all the other sources of mana in a raid, it shouldn't be a problem.

That said, if our 11 point talent is about threat, then they are doing it wrong.

[amadiss]

We have something different yes. I still think we need more flavor.

I do think is time for the warriors to be the ones to show thast if they are good skillful players they can still main tank as good as paladins.

Take turns you know .

[Splug]

I'd quote worldie's post, but I've never been a fan of just quoting people and saying "THIS." So I'll do it without a quote! He hit the nail on the head, and as far as I'm concerned that's pretty much the whole story. It's at the top of this page, and well worth a read if you glanced over it.

-Splug

[agamemnoch]

Hell, lets go for greed. I want something that works in REVERSE of holy shield.

I want something to where I take 10% of the damage I block or 3% of spells over 30 sec, build it up as righteous anger and then unleash it at a single target as holy energy, but requires a shield to do it like the healing trinket from Heroic MgT.

I want to unleash it earlier or if after 30 seconds are up, it fades away slowly

[Worldie]

Also Worldie goota ask , as the MT in your guild do you get prio on items? or what?

I do get priority on items, but i'm not that dumb to steal items to people who need it.

Still counting 9 passed Tempest of Chaos up to now :\

[Danth]

"I do think is time for the warriors to be the ones to show thast if they are good skillful players they can still main tank as good as paladins. "

Outside the raid game--where the majority of the Warcraft player base lives--that's already the case to some extent. By the late Burning Crusade time frame, Paladins had probably become the favored tank for group content.

I recall the same sort of situation in Everquest many years ago, where Paladins tanked for groups and Warriors tanked for raids. Nobody was happy with it *then*, either. I still hold a strong bias against Warriors due to the animosity that existed between them and Paladins. Fortunately Blizzard is proving that it can change where Sony could not (like an old dinosaur!). That's what wins them my subscription.

Want to justify your spot in a group or raid? Make them want YOU. I'm the 'main tank' among my group of friends not because of the class I play, but because I'm me and they trust me. That's exactly why many guilds will likely continue using the same tanks they always did throughout Lich King.

You know what? That's okay. I don't want to be better than the other options--just equal. I don't want them to take me only because they HAVE to, and not because they genuinely want me there. We're Paladins--have some self respect. Demanding superiority strikes me as more...Warrior-like. TSW is ----> THAT way.

Danth

[Zironic]

I do get priority on items, but i'm not that dumb to steal items to people who need it.

Still counting 9 passed Tempest of Chaos up to now :\

Good thing that spelldamage weapon isn't required anymore

[Khriss]

A DPS/TPS Seal for Prots that would scale with defense rating or block value?
Would keep rets out of the park and be a non issue on retri DPS, thus doable to not OP them again AND bring us up in terms of DPS and TPS.

Just a weird brainfart on my side~

[Macha]

What people complain about is the attitude that blizzard shows toward paladins, rather than the actual class effectiveness. In WotLK we are perfectly fine as Main Tanks, much more than in TBC, and i'd say on par as warriors. It just sucks that we're just "oh if you happen to be broken, then i guess we should fix you, but we think you are fine", nevermind the over nine thousand WWS reports from others.

That is mostly the thing. We sure can MT - sure we do less threat, but so far, it doesn't matter much, less than tooooooo much threat is still too much threat.
Sure we get more damage, and are harder to heal against dangerous bosses, but a worse player is harder to heal than us. Sure we lack tools to deal with various problems but somehow it can be worked around.

But the attitude Blizzard shows sucks - we're not even getting the 11 pointer until 3.1 or later. We are that low on the totem pole as far as priority goes.
That, and off-tank dps is still awful - and well, I for one remember that we were kinda promised the opposite. To make tanking more fun.

And they did, for everyone but us.

[Snake-Aes]

I'd quote worldie's post, but I've never been a fan of just quoting people and saying "THIS." So I'll do it without a quote! He hit the nail on the head, and as far as I'm concerned that's pretty much the whole story. It's at the top of this page, and well worth a read if you glanced over it.

-Splug

this


<giggle>

[Aranbenjo]

I'd quote worldie's post, but I've never been a fan of just quoting people and saying "THIS." So I'll do it without a quote! He hit the nail on the head, and as far as I'm concerned that's pretty much the whole story. It's at the top of this page, and well worth a read if you glanced over it.

-Splug

this


<giggle>

This^^

[Snake-Aes]

I'd quote worldie's post, but I've never been a fan of just quoting people and saying "THIS." So I'll do it without a quote! He hit the nail on the head, and as far as I'm concerned that's pretty much the whole story. It's at the top of this page, and well worth a read if you glanced over it.

-Splug

this


<giggle>

This^^

To quote my thinly-masked quotes, please change the color tag to #FAFAFA instead of #EFEFEF

[Jonlo]

Defender of the Light: 1 Pt. 5% Base Mana Instant Cast Off the GCD, 30 Second Cooldown.

Increase your Parry but 10% for 10 seconds. If you Parry an attack during this time, you counter attack with your shield for 200% of your Block Value as Holy Damage. 1 Charge.

The numbers are just thrown in there, obviously could use some tweaking, but it gives us some instant avoidance and nice burst threat, and isn't useful for Ret to pick of for a DPS increase really.