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So... our 11pt talent will be...

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Postby stormknight » Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:07 am

At this point, nothing can saves paladin after lately nerfs.

But it was a fun in tbc to make us considerable tanks and again make our spots in raids in lich king even with these nerfs. Hell yeah, thats gonna be hard but gonna be fun.
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Postby elfjorc » Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:09 am

Plus if you really really want to take more damage for more mana you could always just use Seal of Blood.

Wait, that would be silly
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Postby Worldie » Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:10 am

It's nowhere going to be hard, we still work perfectly, as long as threat is not a issue.
In TBC, we sucked, there's a slight difference between being weak in a point that doesn't matter, and being weak in everything.
(reminder, in TBC we had less hp, less avoidance, less control, less mitigation, and less threat unless 40/21)

The situation is nowhere close to as bad as some people say. The frustrating thing is that we still are the bottom, even if now it doesnt matter. Plus, leveling as prot paladin will fail hard, while prot war, dk and ferals got it a lot easier.
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Postby Passionario » Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:11 am

Worldie wrote:Hell, ShoR as 11 pointer and a new ability at 75 would be great.

^^ This ^^

Remember, 11-pointers aren't for endgame only. Many levelling paladins would appreciate having an extra instant attack as early as level 20.
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Postby Bobness » Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:13 am

Worldie wrote:Sanctuary takes perfectly care of all our mana, and 1kish absorbed damage where things hit for 7k+ aint going to affect your mana regeneration.


Agree about the damage absorbed... but Sanctuary won't take care of all your mana issues.

It will however help maintain a minimal rotation in isolation.
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Postby stormknight » Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:21 am

Bosanc is not gonna save your day. Its help to regen your mana but when you're lvl80, its not gonna be same as you are in heroics atm and block,dodge,parry everything like hell with your t6 or t6.5

Think about new game people, Tbc is finished. Blizzard is giving us too many things (we believe they are) but at the end, they are not so great and its gonna be hard to keep our spots in raids. I mean, why you want to choose prot paladin over feral druid or prot warrior, I mean why you want to choose us?

This question tells everything and dont be in pink world. Its gonna be hard and prepare yourself, otherwise falling will follow.
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Postby Faeth » Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:26 am

stormknight wrote:Bosanc is not gonna save your day. Its help to regen your mana but when you're lvl80, its not gonna be same as you are in heroics atm and block,dodge,parry everything like hell with your t6 or t6.5

Think about new game people, Tbc is finished. Blizzard is giving us too many things (we believe they are) but at the end, they are not so great and its gonna be hard to keep our spots in raids. I mean, why you want to choose prot paladin over feral druid or prot warrior, I mean why you want to choose us?

This question tells everything and dont be in pink world. Its gonna be hard and prepare yourself, otherwise falling will follow.

When we block / parry / dodge less we will indeed have less benefit from BoSanc. But guess what? That's where SA comes in again. In newer content where we take more hits, we'll get healed more and thus still won't have a mana issue. Having said that, we'd aim for blocking ALL incoming attacks so effectively benefit from BoSanc all the way still.

I don't see any issues with mana in instances...party or raid. I do see issues with mana regen and dps when solo grinding...But that's it
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Postby Jasari » Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:29 am

stormknight wrote:Bosanc is not gonna save your day. Its help to regen your mana but when you're lvl80, its not gonna be same as you are in heroics atm and block,dodge,parry everything like hell with your t6 or t6.5

Think about new game people, Tbc is finished. Blizzard is giving us too many things (we believe they are) but at the end, they are not so great and its gonna be hard to keep our spots in raids. I mean, why you want to choose prot paladin over feral druid or prot warrior, I mean why you want to choose us?

This question tells everything and dont be in pink world. Its gonna be hard and prepare yourself, otherwise falling will follow.


We're really not that far behind. Our problem right now is threat. We're fine on mitigation.

We still bring all the cool buffs and bonuses we did pre-nerf. This includes a blessing, an aura, several hand spells which are all situationally quite useful and a judgement. And even though some of these can be brought by other classes or a different pally spec, they're still useful. BoSanc is a great buff that only we can bring. Imp Devo Aura is awesome if there's no druid around and still provides decent armor and insures that all melee will be covered by the +3% healing aura.

If you really look at our class, our single target threat is all we're missing in order to be as good as anyone else at MTing. Blizzard hasn't yet taken a close look at tank threat/dps. I'd bet money that when they do, they'll see the problem and they'll address it.
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Postby Acedonte » Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:27 am

I've said it before, and I'll say it again...

I'd be extremely happy with a simple fear/charm/etc. break.

A spell-reflect would be even better, but I'll take what I can get to not be as flustered against caster bosses.
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Postby majorwoo » Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:43 am

Worldie wrote:Hell, ShoR as 11 pointer and a new ability at 75 would be great.



This. Please. I die a little inside, every time I have to tell someone why I'm not smashing it with my shield yet.
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Postby Dianora » Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:50 am

majorwoo wrote:
Worldie wrote:Hell, ShoR as 11 pointer and a new ability at 75 would be great.



This. Please. I die a little inside, every time I have to tell someone why I'm not smashing it with my shield yet.


since the 11th point talent is available at level 20, they can scaled quite well just by using multiple rank of the spell and adjust the base damage accordingly. I can live with a new level of ShoR every 20 levels.
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Postby Macha » Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:55 am

stormknight wrote:Bosanc is not gonna save your day. Its help to regen your mana but when you're lvl80, its not gonna be same as you are in heroics atm and block,dodge,parry everything like hell with your t6 or t6.5
.


Yes, it's better. I've not been OOM in any instance through the entire Beta, unless I buff everyone - then I sit down for a short time.

Mana is not a concern. Really. Trust me there. We have a whole host of concerns, but mana is totally fine for Prot.

I actually used to have the Spiritual Attunement glyph, and switched it out, because it was not needed. Mana is that little an issue anywhere.

If you really look at our class, our single target threat is all we're missing in order to be as good as anyone else at MTing.


This is however not really an issue YET. It just might eventually be. Our single target DPS, however, is an issue.
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Postby amadiss » Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:41 am

I agree we need to offer something special to get a spot
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Postby amadiss » Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:41 am

1. Maybe trade damage for toughness as the prot warrior used to be?

Making us the hardest to kill tank would grant us a spot compesanting our low dps. Back to the old times. switch role with wars.


2. But remember that the "tankadin flavor" its still unclear at the moment.
Our 11pt talent should give us that flavor.

At this point I wouldnt even mind becoming the Undead/Demon tank
as long as we not only get extra threat against them but also some extra toughness.
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Postby Fizzgig » Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:07 am

If they can assume us having up JoL as one of our benefits I'd be okay with having less dps. Thats a lot of extra healing to have and it mostly fits with the lollore of the class as we are healers no matter the spec.
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