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Retribution Leveling gearing guide

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Retribution Leveling gearing guide

Postby cordelia » Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:31 am

So I browsed the elitist jerks forums. Most of the ret responses to NerfBat(Tm) are fairly even and reasonable. PvE ret, it seems, wasn't nerfed that badly, and many of the ret pallies on EJ don't think this was an overnerf. Obviously, some are still crying sky is falling, just like 90% of prot and holy pallies.

Considering leveling as prot now seems fairly difficult after NerfBat(Tm), I decided to bite the bullet, and start investing in ret gear.

I have 70k honor, 5k arena points, 350 badges. I have no clue what to get.

Pre-3.0, I knew the ret theorycraft. Now, with SotM, DS, etc., I have no idea. Is haste rating better than armor pen now? I can't decide between S3 2h mace vs. BoJ axe, or S4 armor vs. BoJ armor. Obviously, I can eventually honor grind up all the guardian pieces. So really, the questions center around 2.4 BoJ gear vs. S4 armor and S3 weapon. A lot of that centers around haste vs. armorPen/Crit/Hit. And since I don't know any of the new theorycraft, I have no idea what's better.

I HAVE looked at the EJ thread, but I HATE the way EJ organizes their material, there's absolutely no way to search through a 200 page thread for specific information you want. I did a cursory check of Cromfel, but didn't find any threads specifically adressing post 3.0 gearing. So I figure the maintankadin ret community would be able to help.

Help?

PS> Yes, I do PvP. I have 4pcS4 holy gear, so I figure it's time to try ret out. So yes, whatever gear I get, I will PvP in it, however, 5000 arena points goes pretty damn fast, esp. if I want to get the S3 Slicer or Pummeler for tanking (currently using lollipop) or the 3k arena point S3 2h mace.
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not much help

Postby djellum » Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:40 am

cant help much on ret stats much, but...

you can do a find on page in the EJ forum and keep hitting find next till you see your topic.

sorry I cant help more.
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Postby Andryana » Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:41 am

You can consider trying to get the 4 plate pieces from the Argent Dawn/Invasion event, they are not amazing but quite decent, and also the Horseman's Helm it's not that bad(hey gotta enjoy those seasonal events!)

Some stuff i got for ret gear was the 35 badges bracers and 60 badges gloves.
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Postby Khayne » Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:48 am

S4 arena gloves will be awesome for you thanks to the bonus on them, and as far as dps goes i dont think you can go wrong with the BoJ weapon.
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Postby Levantine » Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:51 am

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Postby Khayne » Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:00 am

Well the weapon does work for me attleast, sure S3 weapon would propably be better for pvp but i´d think for pvp he´d get better bang for his buck by using pvp gear with that weapon, than otherway around (and i think you´ll have more trouble in killing stuff in pvp than in solo-pve so rather gear for pvp?). Not to mention he could use the badges for cloak, libram in addition to that axe.
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Postby cordelia » Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:12 am

[wowhead]Blade of Harbingers[/wowhead] over [wowhead]Vengeful Gladiator's Bonegrinder[/wowhead] theorycraft or guessing for PvE dps?

The latter is slower (2.6 vs. 2.5), meaning higher top-end damage for CS and/or SoC(dunno about SotM). The latter has STR instead of AP. The latter is a mace, giving extra expertise (as I'm human), instead of an axe.


PS> Like. OMG. I thought that whole wowhead tooltip thing was stickied somewhere. I just did multiple searches and couldn't find out how to implement it :P.
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Postby uke » Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:32 am

Gearing for Ret is pretty much the same now as it was before, though you have a bit less reliance on +Intellect (used to be no reliance at all pre-nerf, who knows now).

IIRC, arena points will reset after you ding 71. If that's the case, might as well put them to full use.

Buy the S4 gloves (which happen to be among the best PVE gloves to boot), and all the S3 gear that doesn't require rating (everything except for shoulders/weapon, I believe). If you don't have enough arena points for every piece, get what will be the biggest upgrades compared to what you got.

If you're not hoarding honor points for 80, take those and get all the Guardian/Vindicator melee dps gear that doesn't require rating (belt/boots/ring/neck). Also get whatever S2 gear you didn't have enough arena points for S3. You used to want the "scaled" over the "plate" version due it having +Intellect on it. However with Judgements of the Wise, it became uneeded, though with the recent uber-nerf, I'm not sure where the balance is at to be honest.

Also, if you lack badges for Blade of the Harbingers, get an S2 weapon (2h sword or mace). It's itemized for PVP, but still dang good for PVE as well, about a T5 level. I didn't read how many badges you got, though. I will say that S2>Blade of harb for PVP if you do that, though.
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Postby Elsie » Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:35 am

Guide:
Step 1: Get as much strength, crit, attack power, and haste as possible.
Step 2: Kill stuff
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit

If you want to gear up before wotlk:
"Warrior" Guardian Gear
Blade of Harbringer (150 badges)
Angelista's Revenge (75 badges)
Those badge pants (100 badges)
Brutal Gladiator everywhere else (helm, chest, gloves)

However, it's better to just save honor and take the blues and greens in northrend.
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Postby cordelia » Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:02 am

Is the warrior guardian gear better than the paladin guardian gear?

The paladin guardian gear seems to trade str for crit strike on a 1:1.5 ratio. Obviously, int gets transformed into stam, as well. Ignoring the latter, wouldn't 1 str >> 1.5 crit rating for ret pallies, with the added intellect, that would put the paladin guardian gear as superior. Or is my str:crit rating conversion incorrect?

Specifically, I'm looking for some in-depth ret pally theory craft w.r.t. the new talents and what ret should be stacking. eg. pre-3.0, I knew why ArmorPen > Haste for SoC vs. SoB. Yes, I know the new coefficients will change the ratios somewhat, but the general theory-work should not have changed significantly.

Obviously,
(1) hit cap
(2) stack str and AP at a 1:2.3 or 1:2.56 (w/kings) ratio
(3) stack crit/agi. At what ratio is crit rating comparable to 1 str?
(4) stack haste. At what ratio is haste rating comparable to 1 str?
(5) armor Pen?
(6) Int? Obviously this depends on what they end up doing with JotW, but currently it looks like Int will be helpful not only for PvP, but also for solo'ing/grinding.

(?) What about expertise? My understanding was that pre 3.0 expertise rating was the next thing you stack after hit capping, since it was almost impossible for ret pallies to expertise cap. Thus, this should be (1.5), right after hit rating. How much value is the 5 expertise from the S3 mace? Does it offset the advantage that the Blade of the Harbingers has from the haste rating vs. the hit rating/armorpen?

(?) Weapon Speed? Is it still the slower the better? By how much? at what point does sacrificing weapon speed for str/AP/crit/dps make it worth it? Again, comparing the S3 mace vs. Blade of Harbingers.
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Postby uke » Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:07 am

cordelia wrote: (?) Weapon Speed? Is it still the slower the better? By how much? at what point does sacrificing weapon speed for str/AP/crit/dps make it worth it? Again, comparing the S3 mace vs. Blade of Harbingers.


Depends on whether it's for PVE or PVP, both in general, and referring to your specific comparison.

For PVE, haste and a somewhat quick weapon speed (3.5) works better with Seal of Blood/Martyr

For PVP, haste isn’t nearly as beneficial. Also, a slower, harder hitting weapon also provides greater benefit to two of our instant strikes (Crusader Strike and Divine Storm).

Also throw into the mix that if the OP is a human or dwarf, the added racial expertise with a sword or mace (didn’t see the OP’s race). (Edit: I just saw OP's race, so yeah, sword or mace is even better)

In your example, especially for questing/leveling to 80, I would choose the S3 weapon for several reasons.

-The added stamina and resilience is beneficial for solo questing, as you’ll be taking a beating.

- I would choose to level with Command> Martyr/Blood. Again, you’ll be taking a beating while solo-questing.


A big thing that many people don’t think about, also, is that PVP gear in general makes for great leveling/questing gear as well. You’ll be taking a decent amount of damage when questing, and being able to take a beating is worth sacrificing a little bit of all out damage. A dead/running DPS’er does no DPS.

Blade of Harbingers is clearly a raid-potent weapon. However, raiding as a dps assumes you won’t be taking a large amount of direct hits from a boss. Blade of H lacks stamina, emphasizes haste which is more beneficial for a long boss fight, but not so much for quick questing encounters.

TL;DR: quicker weapons (3.4-3.5 speed) weapons Blade of Harbingers w/ Martyr/Blood for 5 mans and raids. Slower (3.6-3.8 ) weapons for PVP and leveling like S3 and other weapons with Stamina bonuses.
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Postby Elsie » Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:12 am

cordelia wrote:Is the warrior guardian gear better than the paladin guardian gear?

The paladin guardian gear seems to trade str for crit strike on a 1:1.5 ratio. Obviously, int gets transformed into stam, as well. Ignoring the latter, wouldn't 1 str >> 1.5 crit rating for ret pallies, with the added intellect, that would put the paladin guardian gear as superior. Or is my str:crit rating conversion incorrect?

Specifically, I'm looking for some in-depth ret pally theory craft w.r.t. the new talents and what ret should be stacking. eg. pre-3.0, I knew why ArmorPen > Haste for SoC vs. SoB. Yes, I know the new coefficients will change the ratios somewhat, but the general theory-work should not have changed significantly.

Obviously,
(1) hit cap
(2) stack str and AP at a 1:2.3 or 1:2.56 (w/kings) ratio
(3) stack crit/agi. At what ratio is crit rating comparable to 1 str?
(4) stack haste. At what ratio is haste rating comparable to 1 str?
(5) armor Pen?
(6) Int? Obviously this depends on what they end up doing with JotW, but currently it looks like Int will be helpful not only for PvP, but also for solo'ing/grinding.

(?) What about expertise? My understanding was that pre 3.0 expertise rating was the next thing you stack after hit capping, since it was almost impossible for ret pallies to expertise cap. Thus, this should be (1.5), right after hit rating. How much value is the 5 expertise from the S3 mace? Does it offset the advantage that the Blade of the Harbingers has from the haste rating vs. the hit rating/armorpen?

(?) Weapon Speed? Is it still the slower the better? By how much? at what point does sacrificing weapon speed for str/AP/crit/dps make it worth it? Again, comparing the S3 mace vs. Blade of Harbingers.


The warrior gear is better since it has higher overall stats except int. Whether you prefer a slight str boost with a nerf to crit, resil (crits, pvp server), and stam is up to you.

There is no absolute rule on what to stack. You would need a spreadsheet. Typically, you cap hit rating, then expertise to 6% to remove dodge, then crit to 25%+, then STR, then haste, then armor pen. However, this is just "in general" and doesn't have any significance after a point. If you want to know how much 5 expertise is, I suggest looking at wowwiki or any number of sites with formula listed.

Slower is still better with Seal of Command and never mattered for Seal of Blood. Again, what you ask for has no catch-all answer.


Suffice to say, for leveling, you don't even need hit, expertise, armor pen, or haste. Stuff you kill generally has such an insignificant amount of hit points, any flat damage increase will win out.
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Postby halabar » Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:23 am

MaxDPS.com

Look at the lists...

1) buy the crafted gear that you can. (belt, cloak)

2) buy the S3 chest and gloves (or S4 if you have the rating)

3) buy the badge pants

4) Get the S2 2H of your choice

and so on...

really, with 500 arena, and 350 badges, you have enough for a full set. Go on MaxDPS and get it done.
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Postby Robbo » Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:26 am

MaxDPS is good for gear listings I suppose, but be careful, it told me to gem for crit for PvE once, and I know that ain't right.
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Postby halabar » Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:36 am

Robbo wrote:MaxDPS is good for gear listings I suppose, but be careful, it told me to gem for crit for PvE once, and I know that ain't right.


For ret?.. well, you wanted crit, at least before the nefbatextreme...

The changes coming will effect some gearing (just like hunters needing to spec for more int after their nerf, since pallys will be useless for mana return now) but we really don't know what the results will be.

But, MaxDPS is the best Ret gear list around... Ask that question on Cromfel and you get pointed there. Even EJ as well.
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