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Postby Wibu » Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:39 am

Blizzards way of forcing us to use a conventional weapon?

I know alot of people were already, but most were on the fence. Maybe the new nerfs to coefficients will push them over the edge.
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Postby Andryana » Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:44 am

Can someone on Beta/PTR confirm if the Hammer of Wrath back to 20% is true?
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Postby Io.Draco » Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:44 am

18 days till WOLTK.....

Wait till then ....

Or well better yet go on their forums and QQ like NEVER before

I never had a problem with what changes blizzard was going to make to nerf us , I was quite happy with prot .... but with this

MOTHERFUCKING BITCHES

Oh btw thank you ret paladins for going down with prot aswell , thanks

If you don't realize ret was op , then good for you , it WAS op and it got nerfed , too much though yes....
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Postby Worldie » Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:59 am

Again, less QQ, 18 days more.

I'm personally going to (uselessly) QQ if things stay like this on the 13 of november. Until then, faith and trust.
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Postby Nemue » Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:07 am

To the ground baby, to the ground.
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Postby Grimmal » Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:21 am

Tossing out the number of days left until the expansion hits actually makes the argument less valid imo. There are 18 days left and they are making sweeping nerfs like this to the entire class. That doesn't speak well of their design imo.

Also for those of you who are, please quit blaming Ret Paladins for this. Nerfing our entire damage system has nothing to do with Ret, it has to do with Blizzard somehow thinking that Paladins were doing to much damage. There was no reason to nerf anything but Blood and Command otherwise.

Thankfully I'll have four 70s to choose from come the expansion, and by the time I get back to my Paladin perhaps they will have dug their heads out of whatever dark hole they are using to make design choices.

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Postby Levantine » Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:24 am

Reading over the changes again makes my baby Warrior a lot more attractive than my Paladin. :( Sad times.
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Postby Fionneous » Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:28 am

I find these changes utterly perplexing, particularly in the case of Holy.

Blue goes out of its way to acknowledge that Holy dps is low, and then lowers the damage on Seals and Judgments, presumably to bring Ret in line.

There are no hints at high-level Holy talents to offset this.

Furthermore, I would pretty much need to see a Blue post explicitly say "We think Prot was doing too much threat, and prot was soloing too quickly" to think that they had any perspective on the breadth of these changes. Until then, I'm left with the sour impression that the left hand is oblivious to what the right hand is up to.

Basically I need to see the text written in Blue to see that Blizzard had thought about these changes with any consideration to how it would affect Holy and Prot. Were these two non-dps specs out of line in comparison to the other tanks? If I saw convincing data that suggested so, I would hold my tongue. Are these data out there somewhere?

Anyone with a beta key and more than a passing interest in the welfare of prot and holy ought to be stirring up quite a bit of trouble over on the beta forums to find out whether or not there will be any steps taken to compensate for how these changes will impact the other two specs of paladin that 85% of the player base seems to have forgotten exist.
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Postby Macha » Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:36 am

Grimmal wrote:Also for those of you who are, please quit blaming Ret Paladins for this. Nerfing our entire damage system has nothing to do with Ret, it has to do with Blizzard somehow thinking that Paladins were doing to much damage. There was no reason to nerf anything but Blood and Command otherwise.


Wrong - it is Ret Paladins. If you just nerf Blood/Command, Ret Paladins just switch to another seal. That is why all seals were nerfed. Remember, until the last seal nerf, Vengeance was actually the best DPS seal. Then seals got nerfed(again).
Now, they just nerfed all seals, to make sure Ret is actually affected.

You really need to remember that Sheath of Light makes Ret's AP scale incredibly well for seals.
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Postby Fionneous » Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:39 am

Grimmal wrote:
Also for those of you who are, please quit blaming Ret Paladins for this. Nerfing our entire damage system has nothing to do with Ret, it has to do with Blizzard somehow thinking that Paladins were doing to much damage. There was no reason to nerf anything but Blood and Command otherwise.



Blizzard does NOT think "Paladins" are doing to much damage as a whole.

If you make the assumption that Blizzard is at least attempting to be logically consistent with itself, it makes no sense to nerf ALL paladin dps when there are breeds of paladin that Blizzard itself says are noticeably low in comparison to other healers.

It seems foolish NOT to blame Retribution Paladins right now.
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Postby Daeren » Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:41 am

Macha wrote:
Grimmal wrote:Also for those of you who are, please quit blaming Ret Paladins for this. Nerfing our entire damage system has nothing to do with Ret, it has to do with Blizzard somehow thinking that Paladins were doing to much damage. There was no reason to nerf anything but Blood and Command otherwise.


Wrong - it is Ret Paladins. If you just nerf Blood/Command, Ret Paladins just switch to another seal. That is why all seals were nerfed. Remember, until the last seal nerf, Vengeance was actually the best DPS seal. Then seals got nerfed(again).
Now, they just nerfed all seals, to make sure Ret is actually affected.

You really need to remember that Sheath of Light makes Ret's AP scale incredibly well for seals.

My point exactly. When paladins have 4k AP and then gets 1200 spell power from that, it doesn't take alot of brain to see that sheath is massivly powerful, maybe too powerful for PvP and PvE
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Postby Katamai » Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:48 am

And instead of nerfing ShoL, they nerf the whole class. Makes sense, doesn't it?
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Postby Proudfoot » Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:52 am

Daeren wrote:
Macha wrote:
Grimmal wrote:Also for those of you who are, please quit blaming Ret Paladins for this. Nerfing our entire damage system has nothing to do with Ret, it has to do with Blizzard somehow thinking that Paladins were doing to much damage. There was no reason to nerf anything but Blood and Command otherwise.


Wrong - it is Ret Paladins. If you just nerf Blood/Command, Ret Paladins just switch to another seal. That is why all seals were nerfed. Remember, until the last seal nerf, Vengeance was actually the best DPS seal. Then seals got nerfed(again).
Now, they just nerfed all seals, to make sure Ret is actually affected.

You really need to remember that Sheath of Light makes Ret's AP scale incredibly well for seals.

My point exactly. When paladins have 4k AP and then gets 1200 spell power from that, it doesn't take alot of brain to see that sheath is massivly powerful, maybe too powerful for PvP and PvE


Sheath is nearly the exact same talent that enhancement shaman have. The only difference is that shaman have Physical abilities and spells... they don't really mix. The fact that Paladin abilitys scale off of SP and AP makes a talent like Sheath very powerful. I don't want to see Sheath nerfed but I also don't want Prot or Holy suffering from these classwide nerfs. Maybe Blizz will compensate Holy and Prot by adding increased damage talents deep in their respective trees. Lets cross our fingers.
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Postby Rhî » Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:55 am

Just another stupid decision.

It would be so fucking easily to split the seals into 1h-seal (vengeance/corruption, righteousness) and 2h-seals (command, blood/martyr), but nooo... better fuck up the whole class, because of ret-scaling.

We started with 35% AP and 58% SP scaling? It's ridiculous to see, what they have done to us there.
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Postby Proudfoot » Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:59 am

Macha wrote:
Grimmal wrote:Also for those of you who are, please quit blaming Ret Paladins for this.


Wrong - it is Ret Paladins.


Sorry, but just to clarify it's not Ret Paladins fault... it's Blizzards fault for not being able to figure out how to balance Ret. I've been playing a Ret Pally since release and I've never asked Blizz to screw over the rest of my class.
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