New Build (9138)

All things related to the expansion

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New Build (9138)

Postby crabcrouton » Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:59 pm

Glyph of Crusader Strike - Reduces the mana cost of your Crusader Strike ability by 20%. (Old - Your Crusader strike deals 20% more damage when your target is incapacitated or stunned.)

Skills
Holy

* Seal of Wisdom now deal [ 16% of AP + 25% of Spell Power + 1 ] holy damage when unleashed. (Down from [ 20% of AP + 32% of Spell Power + 1 ] Holy damage)
* Seal of Light now has a chance to heal for [ 15% of AP + 15% of Spell Power ]. (Down from [ 28% of AP + 28% of Spell Power ])
* Seal of Light now deals [ 16% of AP + 25% of Spell Power + 1 ] (down from [ 20% of AP + 32% of Spell Power + 1 ]) holy damage when unleashed.
* Seal of Righteousness now grants each melee attack [ 2.2% of Melee Weapon Speed * AP + 4.4% of Melee Weapon Speed * Spell Power ] additional Holy damage. (Down from [ 2.8% of Melee Weapon Speed * AP + 5.5% of Melee Weapon Speed * Spell Power ])


Protection

* Seal of Justice now deals [ 16% of AP + 25% of Spell Power + 1 ] holy damage when unleashed. (Down from [ 20% of AP + 32% of Spell Power + 1 ])


Retribution

* Judgement of Command Holy damage reduced from 56% to 45%.
* Blessing of Might (Rank 8 ) and Greater Blessing of Might (Rank 3) now increase AP by 306. (Up from 305)
* Seal of Corruption now deals [ 15% of AP + 8.8% of Spell Power ] additional holy damage over 15 seconds. (Down from [ 19.2% of AP + 9.6% of Spell Power ])
* Seal of Corruption now deals [ 14% of AP + 22% of Spell Power + 1 ] Holy damage. (Down from [ 17.5% of AP + 28% of Spell Power + 1 ])
* Seal of the Martyr now make all your melee attacks deal [ 22% of mw ] to [ 22% of MW ]. (Down from [ 28% of mw ] to [ 28% of MW ])
* Seal of the Martyr now deals [ 16% of AP + 25% of Spell Power + 36% of mw ] to [ 16% of AP + 25% of Spell Power + 36% of MW ] Holy Damage when unleashed. (Old - [ 20% of AP + 32% of Spell Power + 25% of mw ] to [ 20% of AP + 32% of Spell Power + 25% of MW ] Holy damage)
* Seal of Blood now make all your melee attacks deal [ 22% of mw ] to [ 22% of MW ]. (Down from [ 28% of mw ] to [ 28% of MW ])
* Seal of Blood now deals [ 16% of AP + 25% of Spell Power + 36% of mw ] to [ 16% of AP + 25% of Spell Power + 36% of MW ] Holy Damage when unleashed. (Old - [ 20% of AP + 32% of Spell Power + 25% of mw ] to [ 20% of AP + 32% of Spell Power + 25% of MW ] Holy damage)
* Seal of Vengeance now deals [ 15% of AP + 8.8% of Spell Power ] additional Holy damage over 15 sec. (Down from [ 19.2% of AP + 9.6% of Spell Power ])
* Seal of Vengeance now deals [ 14% of AP + 22% of Spell Power + 1 ] Holy damage. (Down from [ 17.5% of AP + 28% of Spell Power + 1 ])
* Judgement of Wisdom now restores 1% of the attacker's maximum mana. (Down from 2%)
* Judgement of Light now has a chance to heal the attacker for [ 10% of AP + 10% of Spell Power ]. (Down from [ 18% of AP + 18% of Spell Power ])


Talents
Retribution

* Divine Storm doesn't deal Holy damage anymore. Now heals up to 3 party or raid members for 25% of the damage caused. (Up from 20%)
* Righteous Vengeance changed to - When your Judgement and Divine Storm spells deal a critical strike, your target will take 8/16/24/32/40% additional damage over 8 sec.
* The Art of War now increases the damage of Judgement, Crusader Strike and Divine Storm by 5/10%. (Old - Increased critical strike damage only, by 10/20%)
* Judgement of the Wise now grants the paladin 15% of his base mana. (Down from 33%)
* Seal of Command now deals [ 16% of AP + 25% of Spell Power + 24% of mw ] to [ 16% of AP + 25% of Spell Power + 24% of MW ] Holy damage. (Down from [ 20% of AP + 32% of Spell Power + 30% of mw ] to [ 20% of AP + 32% of Spell Power + 30% of MW ])
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Postby Warcraft » Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:02 pm

Blizzard pisses me off sometimes. Yes, I will QQ. Why are they nerfing base abilities when it's only one tree that is out of sync?
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Postby Galoheart » Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:14 pm

Man, that's allot of nerfing to our abilities. Why Protect getting hit that much? Just wondering if they going about this the right way with some the threat issues. Soloing is going to suck a bit now.

I just don't get the Devs with all this nerfing of the entire class and to all our seals. Even nerfed mana return as well to 1%, that will be really noticable especially and even more so soloing as well. This just Sucks!
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Postby Jasari » Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:23 pm

meh, who cares? a little nerf to seal damage, our threat is more than fine. As long as they leave our survivability alone I won't complain.
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Postby majiben » Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:01 pm

This is going to hurt the already ailing Holy tree. I would hate to solo with one of those now.
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Postby PsiVen » Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:13 pm

Anyone who intends to solo as Prot will care. I plan to be Ret most of the time, but only when they implement dual specs in 3.1.

As I've said many times, damage buffs and threat buffs cannot coexist. We got threat buffs we didn't ask for, so now it's okay that our damage is getting nerfed. Sigh.
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Postby steadypal » Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:14 pm

so many nerfs seriously wtf
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Postby Legionp » Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:18 pm

In the Thread on the WotLK forums GC has been mostly responding to the Nerf to Ret dps, and partly to discussions about Holy's healing.

Would one of you with a beta key (I'm playing my friend's account which I don't have the "real" acct password for) consider asking:

1) if they expect the damage nerf to seals and judgments to affect Prot threat and Holy solo play by a large amount

2) Why they nerfed pally mana regen so severely while also nerfing DPS, when IMO both should have been reduced by a small amount (aka the JotW nerf was too much)

3) The fact that "If we see Ret no longer participating in raids, Arenas or instances in LK, we'll take action" hold's no weight considering their track record of leaving ret and prot to collect dust since release. Blizzard has always been quick to nerf, and incredibly hesitant to buff. I know GC can't change the past, but I'd like to see her confirm that Blizz has ignored us in the past, and that will not happen in the future, otherwise its just more of the same (seemingly) empty promises.

4) Was the nerf to JoL healing due threat issues, or because of healing done? I'd prefer the threat coefficient changed before the healing done if threat was the problem.

5)" It's possible that if we had made this change in BC that Ret would have been fine in PvE." The old WF was a large portion of DPS in TBC. I seriously doubt this statement.
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Postby crabcrouton » Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:21 pm

Well said.

IMO, the most misleading problem with Ret (re:Seals) right out of alpha was the fact that abilities applied seals. You couldn't balance Crusader Strike or Divine Storm alone; they needed to add Seal damage to it. So balance is a nightmare, and burst damage is a nightmare but instead of uncoupling seals from abilities, they nerfed the whole class across the board. So Prot and Holy gets to eat dirt while they "fix" Ret.

By my count, this is the 4th nerf to seal since alpha and even on the tanking seals no less. Dual specs won't be implemented until after LK is released so anyone leveling as Prot or Holy come 3.0 will have some difficulties.
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Postby iliya » Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:27 pm

I think it's safe to say that these nerfs to the seals have hurt all three specs and not just rets.

Damn.
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Postby Galoheart » Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:44 pm

Jasari wrote:meh, who cares? a little nerf to seal damage, our threat is more than fine. As long as they leave our survivability alone I won't complain.



I tend to care. I level, solo and grind as protect as well as Raid. Others who level in the spec as Protec care as well. Not all of us tend to play Ret spec. So I care. And these Beta changes all sucks!
Last edited by Galoheart on Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby majiben » Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:55 pm

Galoheart wrote:
Jasari wrote:meh, who cares? a little nerf to seal damage, our threat is more than fine. As long as they leave our survivability alone I won't complain.



I tend to care. I level, solo and grind as protect as well as Raid. Others who level in the spec care as well. Not all of us tend to play Ret while posing as Tanks. So I care. And it all sucks!
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Postby Galoheart » Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:59 pm

Majiben wrote:
Galoheart wrote:
Jasari wrote:meh, who cares? a little nerf to seal damage, our threat is more than fine. As long as they leave our survivability alone I won't complain.



I tend to care. I level, solo and grind as protect as well as Raid. Others who level in the spec care as well. Not all of us tend to play Ret while posing as Tanks. So I care. And it all sucks!
Your attacks are unwelcomed here.



There is no attack there. I'm simply saying the recent changes to the class sucks. But if you think that it is then it been corrected.
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Postby lusisia » Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:02 pm

Majiben wrote:
Galoheart wrote:
Jasari wrote:meh, who cares? a little nerf to seal damage, our threat is more than fine. As long as they leave our survivability alone I won't complain.



I tend to care. I level, solo and grind as protect as well as Raid. Others who level in the spec care as well. Not all of us tend to play Ret while posing as Tanks. So I care. And it all sucks!
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That's okay. Our attacks suck now anyway ;)

And I wouldn't call it an attack. If anything the person he was responding to was making the attack.

Quite frankly, I've been pretty levelheaded throughout the beta process with the various changes but even this one has me pissed off.

Ret is basically fucking the other two specs at this point because someone at Blizzard can't figure out how to fucking balance things. God forbid a Holy pally have to kill something solo. They were hurting before and now they'll be hurting even more.

I was actually starting to have fun in BGs again (as prot) because I could actually kill someone (even warlocks!).

It's really starting to get out of hand, the number of "nerfs" done to paladins as a whole thanks to one partially out-of-whack spec.
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Postby Quacky » Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:03 pm

I care. Those nerfs are going to hit the whole class fairly hard. Ret's mana is going to be limited even with our version of blood rage. I can imagine having to leave GCD's unused often enough to seriously lower ret sustained dps.

On top of that the seal damages are going to hurt all specs when soloing. Especially since I plan to be prot quite often. Duel spec will ease this a lot by allowing me to spec ret to solo/farm/quest but I will definately not have as much fun as prot. I'll rather have RF lowered then seal lowered as prot.

And right now, Holy will seem so painful to level. I leveled a disc priest back in early TBC. That was tough but it was fun because I just like the original lore. Holy pallies don't have to lore to make it as fun imo. I already know I won't be playing this spec much which is sad.
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