Question about some tankadin talents in the expansion

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Postby Mongarwer » Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:39 am

Let's get this topic back! It now seems HoJ is not to be taken. Additionaly, I noticed that this:

Q: So how should I spec for zerging easy stuff?
A: Lore's Prot DPS: 5/56/0 - Karazhan, running old content for Achievements, lolProtDPS.

contains 2/2 Divine guardian, what's up with that?
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Postby Candiru » Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:52 am

30s CD on Hammer of justice is pretty pro in Sunwell.

You can use it on the Mu'ru side adds to great effect, as well as on the Kil'jaden summoners to stop them spamming shadowbolts. And, where else are those 3 points going?
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Postby Ashmadai » Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:01 am

Why is Divine Guardian skipped in peoples builds?

I'm not skipping DG in my builds, because I know I'm going to be sharing tanking duties with other people and I love the idea of being able to mini shield wall everybody else in the raid and save some ass when I'm off tanking.

Why Imp Devo? Shall we not use Retri? Imp Devo is pretty awesome now, especially if you don't have a resto druid around. Plus a Ret will be providing a mega superior Ret aura to the raid.

Has Reckoning became so useless? Yes. SoV/SoCorr are the go to tanking seals now, and Reckoning is nigh useless with them.
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Postby Mongarwer » Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:01 am

Lot's of places. For start, Kings. I'm not still convinced but people like it.
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Postby Mongarwer » Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:04 am

Additionally, if you take 1 point Imp Judgment and don't take Seals of the pure, you can either put 2/2 in divine guardian and 3/3 in HoJ or 5/5 in kings. one must take into consideration i don't and won't play 25 mans till wotlk, so before that Divine guardian is sucky.
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Postby 2ndNin » Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:16 am

You take kings because until 80 other people sacrifice more than you do to take it.

Ret basically can get all of its DPS talents at 70, their build at 80 can afford to lose 5 points into prot for Kings because all they lose is PvP talents, Holy I am not sure about but I think it can currently afford to lose the points as well until potentially 80ish when they can go into Ret for +8% crit. At the moment we lose the interrupt and divine guardian basically (assuming you take improved devo aura), guardian is currently pretty useless (not seen a fight yet that really taxed the healers, and that included Teron with 18 constructs in the raid + lag) due to the damage nerfs, and the interrupt was non-functional till 3.03 (so its just a hammer which most boss level targets are immune to). Your loses to take Kings in 3.02 were minimal.
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Postby uke » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:21 am

FYI, don't expect most Ret pallys to take Kings until 80 when they have the extra 10 points to spare. Way too many 'must have' talents in the Ret tree to afford more than 5 in Divine Strength (and 3 in Stoicism if PVP) in the protection tree, at the moment.
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Postby Kellann » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:14 am

2ndNin wrote:You take kings because until 80 other people sacrifice more than you do to take it.

In my guild the holy's will be taking kings until 80, when the Ret's take it instead.

Currently my holy's want BACON, which leaves them short on points for getting deep enough ret to really make them drool - so the excess gets spent in kings and their particular choice of rill

Currently the PVE ret spec is basically the same one as 80, minus kings and frills (they can already get all the important non-PvP stuff at 70).
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Postby EvilNuff » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:37 am

I think Kings is junk. If some other pally wants to spend 5 points on it more power to him. I would rather save the 5 points and literally not have it. It is honestly the 3rd blessing I would take after sanc, and wisdom.

Let's be honest you are going to flat out take:
5 Divine Str
5 Anticipation
5 Toughness
3 Righteous Fury
3 Devo Aura
1 BoSanctuary
Thats 22 points spent, you must spend 3 more to get to 1h weapon spec. Your choices are:
5 in kings
2 Guardians Favor
3 Stoicism
3 Improved HoJ
2 Divine Guardian
5 Reckoning

Of these, your best bet comes from Kings, HoJ, and DG. The rest are just inferior, IMO.

If you want to get kings put in 3 points here and take 2 out from something else later on you are taking 2 points away from something useful for a buff that is 3rd or 4th best for every class.

If you want DG then I can see a reasonable argument. Keep in mind what this does, when you bubble it soaks up damage from your party/raid to you and because you are bubbled it goes poof. Its a mini shield wall for the raid. This is really, really strong...however if you're prot you won't be using this. Ret or Holy who go into prot should definitely consider this, however.

HoJ uses those 3 points nicely, it gives you a 30 sec reliable interrupt, and personally on a PvP server its a no brainer which one I go with.
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Postby Torquemada » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:49 am ... Torquemada

1) I take Divine Guardian because currently we're in BT. It allows me to offtank/offheal on Naj and bubble before we pop his. As one of two tanks in the guild who've bothered to get FR gear ahead of needing it(I used to tank Leo during demon phase during a period where our normal Warlock tank was out with RL issues), I'm not on Illidan, so I pop bubble during Phase 4 when he's blasting the crap out of those raid members who didn't bother to spread out enough.
2) I do not take Improved Demo at 70 because we currently have like 3 Resto Druids who raid regularly. There's also a less active Prot Pally who has improved Devo, so I let him use it. Our Ret Pally isn't really playing much until WotLK drops.
3) I have melee dps to interrupt for me if I need it.

Your own mileage may very, spec whatever way you feel suits you best.

At 80 I will take SotP, and Improved Devo, with my last two points catching the stuff at the bottom of the Prot tree I don't currently have(I don't run out of mana right now anyway).

Having 2 Pallies who have Kings is great. It means that you'll have Kings and Sanc on the boss. If it's a Holy Pally, your casters will have Improved Wisdom and Kings. If it's a Ret Pally, they'll have Kings and Improved Might. I just wish they'd fix this crap so we didn't need 4 Pallies to have all of OUR buffs. At this point though I usually forego Might since I'm already able to pull aggro off the MT on Illidan in FR gear.
Last edited by Torquemada on Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Garath.Gorefiend » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:50 am

Depends what content your doing.

Frankly the increased damage from SotP is pretty minimal and easily skipped.

Someone referenced Lore's Prot DPS build, and that is ok, for non-challenging content, but if your going to be going up against anything that hits hard, or want to maintain a decent rotation, you really want 6 points in the Ret tree for deflection 5/5 and imp Judge 1/2

But thats a different topic.

As far as speccing kings or not, the issue is, what benefits your group or raid the most.

This really depends on whether your doing progression tanking or farm tanking.

At 70, while I do find some holy paladins taking kings, for the most part, I am seeing both holy and ret builds skip it. The feel they sacrifice too much.

We, on the other hand, can waste 3 points in Improved Hammer of Justice, or put it in kings and, for now, steal a couple of points from Improved Devotion to max kings out.

Improved Devotion aura is nice, for progression raid tanking.

When your doing trash farming, you wont have Devotion aura up, at least most of the time, you will be running with Ret aura as you dont need the extra armor.

Even in progression raiding you will probably have a Tree druid around to give healing bonus if its required.

Frankly, I find improved hammer of justice way to expensive for what it does.

3 talent points to make a mostly useless skill still mostly useless...bleh.

Anyways, in most cases, your trash groups will get more use/benefit from you haveing Kings than they will from either imp HoJ or Imp Devo.
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Postby majiben » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:50 am

You would take wisdom before kings and might?

EvilNuff wrote:I think Kings is junk. If some other pally wants to spend 5 points on it more power to him. I would rather save the 5 points and literally not have it. It is honestly the 3rd blessing I would take after sanc, and wisdom.

And pray tell me what are you missing to put those last 2 points in kings that is of greater benifit to the raid?
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